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Warlock Guide: Talents & Specs for WotLK 3.0.3
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Post by
Blightman
Well our old talent sticky is gone. Since no one else has taken on this task I guess I will take a stab at it.
Feel free to add feedback.
Edit: Thanks for all the feedback, keep it coming
The 3.1 version can be found
here
Table of Contents
Affliction
Demonology
Destruction
Specs
Glyphs
- in progress
I will be using a scale of 1 to 5.
Rank 1 - why do you have this talent?
Rank 2 - you can probably get more from another talent
Rank 3 - good, optional talent
Rank 4 - very good talent
Rank 5 - skipping this talent is crazy
Many talents are interrelated, talent A may be a rank1 or 2 without talent B. For example, Improved Felhunter is a weak talent without Dark pact. Most rankings are not based on cross tree relationships. Certain talents may be specced for a specific purpose, in that case consider it a 5. For example an affliction lock in a raiding guild may be required by his guild to have Malediction.
I will rank talents for 3 areas of the game:
PvP: PvP comes in several flavors: World(raid), World(solo), Arena, Battleground, and Dueling. Overall the benefits from the talents to PvP will be the same.
PvE(Instance): Dungeons and Raids. Focus will be slanted to raids
PvE(Solo): Leveling and farming
Also check out these topics in our forum:
The basics - hit, crit, haste, and spell damage
- for important information on stats and how they work for locks. A lot of information is covered in it and the subsequent comments. Specifically look at the discussion about HIT from talents vs HIT from gear.
The Warlock: From Levels 1-60- Complete, Yet Not
- While kappa and I don't view everything the same it is a good primer for new locks. He still needs to take out the reference to casting CoD on players
Post by
Blightman
Affliction
Focuses on debuffs and drains. You will have more DOTs and they will work better. A very mana efficient tree.
Raid Pet: Felhunter
Tier 1:
Improved Curse of Agony
PvP: 1 or 2
PvE(Instance): 3 or 4
PvE(Solo): 4 or 5
Comments: This is the weakest talent in the tier. That said it is a nice boost to a single spell. The first number is without the
Glyph of Curse of Agony
. With this talent and the glyph, CoA's theoretical DPS is higher than CoD's DPS. The low ranking for PvP is that against many classes CoEx will be used instead, feel free to consider it ranked 1 point higher in PvP if CoEx is not the best choice. A note: for destro locks wanting to proc Molten Core, add a point to the rank.
Suppression
PvP: 2
PvE(Instance); 4
PvE(Solo): 3
Comments: This is an ok talent. The mana cost reduction will help DPS in raids through fewer life taps. Personally I believe in getting truly hit capped rather than partially hit capped. The #1 spell not affected by this that you will need in raids is SB. If you gear is low on hit this talent can help make you viable until you get better gear.
Improved Corruption
PvP: 5
PvE(Instance); 5
PvE(Solo): 5
Comments: The best in the tier. All affliction locks should have 5/5 of this.
Tier 2:
Frailty
PvP: 2
PvE(Instance): 2 or 4
PvE(Solo): 2
Comments: In melee heavy raids, CoR can provide a very solid DPS boost. It stacks with sunder but not Faerie Fire. Basically if you are raiding and your guild asks you to spec for it take it or if you pug raid consider grabbing it. Only 1 lock in a raid will need it, none if a druid is applying Faerie Fire. For PvP, it is great against pets but vs players CoEx is a much better curse. Occasional when soloing elites the extra AP reduction boost to CoW can help.
Improved Drain Soul
PvP: 1
PvE(Instance): 4
PvE(Solo): 3 or 2
Comments: The threat reduction is very useful for instances. When soloing it does help the pet keep aggro longer but its biggest use is for mana regen, once Dark pact is learned it drops to a 2 for soloing.
Improved Life Tap
PvP: 3
PvE(Instance); 5 or 4
PvE(Solo): 5 or 4
Comments: The best in the tier. All affliction locks should have 2/2 of this. You can drop the ratings to 4 once you have
Dark Pact
Soul Siphon
PvP: 4
PvE(Instance): 5
PvE(Solo): 5
Comments: If you are planning on doing any drain tanking then you should get 2/2 in this talent. The highest rank of
Drain Soul
is a monster below 25%. The 4X damage is applied after the benefits from this talent.
Tier 3:
Improved Fear
PvP: 5
PvE(Instance); 1
PvE(Solo): 3
Comments: In someways better than CoEx. If you are this far into affliction and plan on PvPing then fill in this talent.
Fel Concentration
PvP: 5
PvE(Instance); 2
PvE(Solo): 5
Comments: Even with the changes to pushback this remains a key affliction talent
Amplify Curse
PvP: 5*
PvE(Instance); 1
PvE(Solo): 2
Comments: It gets a 5 for PvP only because this is the only way to get CoEx. If you are not getting CoEx skip this talent.
Tier 4:
Grim Reach
PvP: 5
PvE(Instance); 4
PvE(Solo): 5
Comments: Very solid talent.
Nightfall
PvP: 5
PvE(Instance): 3
PvE(Solo): 3
Comments: Add some nice burst damage to affliction. On a single target with corruption+drain life gives about a 5% chance per second to proc. The
Glyph of Corruption
can boost this a little. They do stack in that each tick of Corruption can trigger either Shadow trance they don't stack in that if both Nightfall and GoC proc on the same tick only 1 instant cast SB will result. Some people love this talent and some don't.
Empowered Corruption
PvP: 4
PvE(Instance): 4
PvE(Solo): 4
Comments: Nothing to not like about this talent.
Tier 5:
Shadow Embrace
PvP: 5
PvE(Instance); 5
PvE(Solo): 3
Comments: Makes killing druids much easier in PvP, Dots hit harder and their HoTs get weaker. Good DPS boost for instances.
Siphon Life
PvP: 5
PvE(Instance): 4
PvE(Solo): 5
Comments: I can not see a reason to NOT have this talent. It is possibly the single best talent in the tree. For PvP and PvE(solo) consider the
Glyph of Siphon Life
Curse of Exhaustion
PvP: 5
PvE(Instance): 2
PvE(Solo): 3
Comments: This curse is great for kiting. If you are this far into the tree and plan on doing PvP then get this talent.
Tier 6:
Improved Felhunter
PvP: 1 or 3
PvE(Instance): 1 or 5
PvE(Solo): 1 or 5
Comments: Without Dark Pact it is a 1 with DP it is a 5. This makes the felhunter into a very good mana battery. and unlike the Imp he does some damage while doing it.
Shadow Mastery
PvP: 5
PvE(Instance): 5
PvE(Solo): 5
Comments: 15% DPS to all shadow spells....Yes Please!
Tier 7:
Eradication
PvP: 4
PvE(Instance): 3
PvE(Solo): 3
Comments: Want to cast UA, haunt, Fear faster? This talent can help. 3/3 in this talent is recommend for PvP but 2/3 is good as well. 1 or 2 points for PvE will work. When it procs it acts like more haste so GCDs are reduced and Drain times are reduced. Three negatives to it:
1x per 30s limit
1st point adds 4% proc chance, 2nd and 3rd add 3%
As you get more haste the effectiveness of this talent drop
Contagion
PvP: 5
PvE(Instance): 5
PvE(Solo): 5
Comments: another no brainer, more damage and in PvP fewer dispels.
Dark Pact
PvP: 3
PvE(Instance): 5
PvE(Solo): 5
Comments: If you are this far a long grab it. basically a 1 point endless mana button.
Tier 8:
Improved Howl of Terror
PvP: 5
PvE(Instance): 1
PvE(Solo): 3
Comments: Great for PvP, useful "Uh-Oh" button when soloing.
Glyph of Howl of Terror
is a great compliment to this talent
Malediction
PvP: 3
PvE(Instance): 4 or 5
PvE(Solo): 3
Comments: The boost to spell damage is up whether CoE is used or not. Keep in mind that CoE does not stack with Earth and moon or Ebon Plaguebringer.
Tier 9:
Death's Embrace
PvP: 4
PvE(Instance): 4
PvE(Solo): 3
Comments: strong in PvP for finishing or drain tanking them. Helps finish off bosses. Combined with
Darin Soul(rank6)
for impressive damage
Unstable Affliction
PvP: 5
PvE(Instance): 4
PvE(Solo): 3
Comments: Great for silencing those pesky dispellers. Nice DPs for instances.
Glyph of Unstable Affliction
good in PvP and makes keeping all your DOTs up in PvE easier
Pandemic
PvP: 3
PvE(Instance): 3
PvE(Solo): 3
Comments: Good talent that helps affliction scale better with gear. 3 talent points is expensive and it only affects 2 out of up to 5 DOTs hence the low ranking.
Tier 10:
Everlasting Affliction
PvP: 2
PvE(Instance): 5
PvE(Solo): 2
Comments: Overall a good talent.
Tier 11:
Haunt
PvP: 5
PvE(Instance): 4
PvE(Solo): 3
Comments: Arguably the best 51pt talent for warlocks. Does damage, heals, increases damage other DOTs do. Should not pass this spell up.
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Post by
Blightman
Demonology
Focuses on more powerful pets and warlocks. Less variety in spells but many talents to focus the few you do have. Pets are stronger and there is a strong synergy between pet and lock. Lock gains a lot of durabilty.
Raid pet: Felguard
Tier 1:
Improved Healthstone
PvP: 5
PvE(Instance); 4
PvE(Solo): 3
Comments: Great in PvP especially paired with
Glyph of Healthstone
. Useful when raiding, more so with potion sickness.
Improved Imp
PvP: 1 or 3
PvE(Instance); 1 or 4
PvE(Solo): 1 or 3
Comments: It is a 1 for Felguard builds and affliction builds. Mainly for destruction builds these days
Demonic Embrace
PvP: 5
PvE(Instance); 3 or 5
PvE(Solo): 3
Comments: More stamina = more mana. This is a very good talent. The 5 ranking is for felguard locks.
Tier 2:
Improved Health Funnel
PvP: 1
PvE(Instance): 2
PvE(Solo): 4
Comments: The bonus healing is nice but the 30% damage reduction is the best part. Very good when using the VW or Felguard to solo an elite.
Demonic Brutality
PvP: 1 or 2
PvE(Instance): 1 or 4
PvE(Solo): 3 or 3
Comments: The first rank is for the VW part of the talent. The second rank is for the Felguard component.. For solo work getting the full Demonic frenzy stack is going to be irregular. On long boss fights this talent will boost FG DPS nicely. This talent may be considered a 5 when looking at talents available to get further down the tree from here
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=IZ0gczsg
Fel Vitality
PvP: 5
PvE(Instance): 5
PvE(Solo): 5
Comments: Increases your health and makes pets live longer. Clearly the best talent in this tier
Tier 3:
Improved Succubus
PvP: 3
PvE(Instance): 2
PvE(Solo): 2
Comments: If you use the seduction of the Succy a lot in PvE then feel free to increase the rank by 1. For PvP, the ability to basically instant cast seduce is good vs rogues when they cheapshot you. It does NOT make seduce last beyond the 10s cap in PvP.
Soul Link
PvP: 5
PvE(Instance): 3
PvE(Solo): 5
Comments: Don't skip this talent. It is just good.
Fel Domination
PvP: 2 or 4
PvE(Instance): 1 or 2
PvE(Solo): 1 or 3
Comments: Helps get a pet out faster. PvP uses include sacing the VW and then summoning a new pet, Or switching pets to match opponents in an arena match. The low ranking is without Master Summoner. Useful in PvE when the pet goes down and you need a new one quick.
Demonic Aegis
PvP: 5
PvE(Instance): 5
PvE(Solo): 5
Comments: Soul Link is a better talent in this tier for PvP but this is better for PvE. Flat out increases your DPS.
Tier 4:
Unholy Power
PvP: 5
PvE(Instance): 5
PvE(Solo): 5
Comments: pure pet DPS increase
Master Summoner
PvP: 3
PvE(Instance): 2
PvE(Solo): 2
Comments: See comments under Fel Domination
Tier 5:
Demonic Sacrifice
PvP: 2
PvE(Instance): 1 or 5
PvE(Solo): 3
Comments: Fortunately it is now skippable. Useful mainly for raiders wanting to use a DS build.
Master Conjuror
PvP: 2
PvE(Instance): 2
PvE(Solo): 2
Comments: 2nd worst talent in the tree. Blizz is updating the tooltip to make it clear that it does it only increases the haste/crit and not the damage. So for 2 talent points you can get either:
For firestone: (49*1.3)-49 = 14.7 crit rating boost = .32% crit boost
For spell stone: (60*.13)- 60 = 18 haste = 0.54% haste boost
Tier 6:
Mana Feed
PvP: 1
PvE(Instance): 3
PvE(Solo): 4
Comments: For solo work 2/3 is generally enough to keep the felguard's mana up. 1/3 is enough for raiding. 0/3 with a FG is not recommended.
Master Demonologist
PvP: 5
PvE(Instance): 5
PvE(Solo): 5
Comments: One of the key talents to making demo builds work. Kepp in mind the bonus is for both the lock and the pet.
Improved Enslave Demon
PvP: 1
PvE(Instance): 1
PvE(Solo): 1
Comments: Currently the worst talent in the tree, Skip it. Only reason to take this talent is to be ridiculed.
Tier 7:
Demonic Resilience
PvP: 5
PvE(Instance): 3
PvE(Solo): 5
Comments: Great for anti-crit talent for PvP. The reduced damage to pet is the key part for PvE work
Demonic Empowerment
PvP: 5
PvE(Instance): 3
PvE(Solo): 4
Comments: Acts as an anti-CC pet trinket in PvP. For PvE it is a nice DPS pet trinket.
Demonic Knowledge
PvP: 4
PvE(Instance): 5
PvE(Solo): 5
Comments: As you stack more stamina your pet gets more stamina and you get more spell power. Works well. Don't skip this talent.
Tier 8:
Demonic Tactics
PvP: 5
PvE(Instance): 5
PvE(Solo): 5
Comments: Pure damage boost, +10% crit for you and pet. Skipping this talent would be crazy.
Fel Synergy
PvP: 3
PvE(Instance): 5
PvE(Solo): 5
Comments: The extra armor/stamina/int is nice but the pet healing is the good part. The biggest weakness of demo locks is the severe drop in DPS when pet is dead. This talent goes a long way to preventing that. Get it
Tier 9:
Improved Demonic Tactics
PvP: 5
PvE(Instance): 3
PvE(Solo): 3
Comments: A good talent. Helps keep the pet scaling
Summon Felguard
PvP: 5
PvE(Instance): 5
PvE(Solo): 5
Comments: Going this far into demo and skipping the best pet in the game? I don't think so. (Ok for some situations the others are better).
Glyph of Felguard
is a big boost to the FG as well, the 10% is to overall AP not base AP.
Demonic Empathy
PvP: 1
PvE(Instance): 2
PvE(Solo): 2
Comments: The DPS boost is small. It does not trigger off of your pet's auto-attacks only their spells/abilities. So with the FG, only intercept and cleave trigger it, Rough math puts it at about 50% uptime. Recommend skipping until improved.
Tier 10:
Demonic Pact
PvP: 2
PvE(Instance): 1 or 3
PvE(Solo): 3
Comments: Biggest weakness is that it is overwritten by other classes talents i.e. totem of wrath. If no one else in your raid has a better buff then it is a 3.
Improved Divine Spirit
- overwrites DP, if your spell power is less than 810
Flametongue Totem
- overwrites DP, if your SP is less than 1450
Totem of Wrath
- overwrites DP, if your SP is less than 2810
Tier 11:
Metamorphosis
PvP: 1 or 5
PvE(Instance): 3
PvE(Solo): 3
Comments: Makes a nice 'Uh-Oh" button when soloing. The 20% DPS increase makes it a good trinket type ability for raiding. PvP: you either love this talent or hate it. If you like it take it otherwise skip it.
Love Points: better armor, reduced stun/snare duration, more anti-crit.
Hate Points:
Banish
,
Turn Evil
,
Holy Wrath
,
Exocism
and finally: can't use it while stunned
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Post by
Blightman
Destruction
Main focus is high intensity direct damage. Faster casting direct damage and harder hitting. With the new changes good DPS will require better spell weaving to maximize spell interactions. Empowered Imp based specs are tending to give the most DPS.
Raid Pet: Imp
Tier 1:
Improved Shadow Bolt
PvP: 2 or 3
PvE(Instance): 1 or 3
PvE(Solo): 1 or 3
Comments: Once you have 3/3 Emberstorm this talent's ranking drops to the lower number. The tooltip is misleading, this talent does NOT increase your shadow damage from DOTS. Basically only FG/Devestation and Meta/Ruin specs should consider this talent.
Bane
PvP: 5
PvE(Instance): 5
PvE(Solo): 5
Comments: Do I really need to say anything to sell this talent
Tier 2:
Aftermath
PvP: 2
PvE(Instance): 1
PvE(Solo): 1
Comments: Just bad. If someone posts that this daze can dismount people then I will make it a 3 for PvP.
Molten Core
PvP: 3 or 4
PvE(Instance); 3 or 5
PvE(Solo): 3 or 5
Comments: Short guide for chance that MC will proc before it expires
For affliction: Haunt+UA+CoA+Corr+SiL+SB generates roughly 21 proc chances
1/3 MC is ~65%
2/3 MC is ~90
3/3 MC is about ~97%
Used to boost Immolate damage
For destro(fire): CoA+Corr gives 10 proc chances
1/3 MC is about ~40%
2/3 MC is about ~65%
3/3 MC is about ~80%
Used to boost Immolate+Incinerate+(Conflagrate)+(Chaos Bolt) damage
For destro(shadow) or FG/Devastation or Meta/Ruin: CoA+Corr+SB gives 14.8 proc chances
1/3 MC is about ~51%
2/3 MC is about ~77%
3/3 MC is about ~90%
Used to boost Immolate damage
Or to put it another way chance to proc:
1/2 MC for affliction ~= 2/3 MC for destro(fire) for uptime
2/3 MC for affliction > 3/3 MC for destro(fire)
But destro(fire) will get more DPS from it being up
Cataclysm
PvP: 2
PvE(Instance); 4
PvE(Solo): 3
Comments: This is an ok talent. The mana cost reduction will help DPS in raids through fewer life taps. Personally I believe in getting truly hit capped rather than partially hit capped. CoA, Corruption, and SoC are 3 spells this talent does NOT affect. If you gear is low on hit this talent can help make you viable until you get better gear. If you have 3/3 Emberstorm take this talent over iSB since you will almost never use SB and the mana savings is a DPS boost
Tier 3:
Demonic Power
PvP: 1
PvE(Instance); 1 or 5
PvE(Solo): 1 or 5
Comments: If you are going to use an empowered imp build then this is basically required. If you are going for an Imp build grab
Glyph of Imp
as well.
Shadowburn
PvP: 5
PvE(Instance): 3
PvE(Solo): 4
Comments: Nice finisher.
Ruin
PvP: 5
PvE(Instance): 5
PvE(Solo): 5
Comments: Another no brainier talent
Tier 4:
Intensity
PvP: 5
PvE(Instance): 2
PvE(Solo): 5
Comments: even with pushback changes still a good talent
Destructive Reach
PvP: 5
PvE(Instance): 5
PvE(Solo): 5
Comments: increased range and threat reduction combined into one great talent
Improved Searing Pain
PvP: 5
PvE(Instance): 1
PvE(Solo): 2
Comments: The high threat component of searing pain makes this a poor talent for PvE.
Tier 5:
Pyroclasm
PvP: 3
PvE(Instance): 1
PvE(Solo): 2
Comments: The tooltip makes it sound better than it is. The stun chance on the AoE spells is split across the ticks. The addition of
Conflagrate
is ok. IMO it needs to include searing pain to be truly useful.
Improved Immolate
PvP: 4
PvE(Instance): 4
PvE(Solo): 4
Comments: a solid but costly DPS boost to immolate. As a precursor to Conflagrate and Backdraft it is effectively a required talent.
Devastation
PvP: 5
PvE(Instance): 5
PvE(Solo): 5
Comments: Great talent
Tier 6:
Nether Protection
PvP: 5
PvE(Instance): 2
PvE(Solo): 3
Comments: For some PvE fights this is a great talent, easily a 4 or 5 ranking. Only give it a 2 for instances since those situations are the exceptions not the rule.
Emberstorm
PvP: 4
PvE(Instance): 5
PvE(Solo): 4
Comments: Straight up DPS boost to fire spells. Destro is now slanted to fire based damage so grab this talent.
Tier 7:
Conflagrate
PvP: 4
PvE(Instance): 4
PvE(Solo): 3
Comments: This is a good talent if you get the new
Glyph of Conflagrate
.
Soul Leech
PvP: 3 or 1
PvE(Instance): 2 or 5
PvE(Solo): 3 or 1
Comments: Before Fel Armor it is a 3 in PvP and a 3 for soloing after Fel Armor it is weak. If you plan on using the Imp for instance running and getting the Imrpoved Soul Leech then it is a 5.
Backlash
PvP: 5
PvE(Instance): 5
PvE(Solo): 5
Comments: One of those perfect package talents
Tier 8:
Shadow and Flame
PvP: 5
PvE(Instance): 5
PvE(Solo): 5
Comments: At this point in the tree skipping this would be sad.
Improved Soul Leech
PvP: 4
PvE(Instance): 3 or 5
PvE(Solo): 3
Comments: For any destro raider using the imp with empowered imp it is required. If you know your raid composition will always provide enough mana regen, you can go 1/2 in this talent or possibly even skip it:
Hunting Party
Vampiric Touch
Improved Water Elemental
Judgments of Wisdom
Judgments of the Wise
Mana Spring Totem
Mana Tide Totem
Blessing of Wisdom
Tier 9:
Backdraft
PvP: 5
PvE(Instance): 4
PvE(Solo): 4
Comments: This makes up for the time lost when Conflagrate consumes your Immolate. Conflagrate -> Immolate ->Soulfire(2.8s) -> Soulfire(2.8s) makes me smile. Get the
Glyph of Drain Soul
if you are going to do that(even with the low proc rate)
Shadowfury
PvP: 5
PvE(Instance): 3
PvE(Solo): 4
Comments: AoE stun with some damage is nice. Limited usefulness in instances.
Empowered Imp
PvP: 3
PvE(Instance): 5
PvE(Solo): 5
Comments: If you get this talent, and you should, don't skip Improved Soul Leech, Demonic Power, or Improved Imp. Don't try testing this on a dummy. In a raid your imp's crit chance can easily be be boosted over 15% causing this to proc a lot more in a raid. In some regards it is like letting you double dip on raid crit bonuses, And what destro lock doesn't want more crit?
Tier 10:
Fire and Brimstone
PvP: 3
PvE(Instance): 3
PvE(Solo): 3
Comments: At 5 points it is hard to rank this higher. It gives a good boost to immolate and conflagrate when used at the end of immolate. Wish it was a 3 point talent.
Tier 11:
Chaos Bolt
PvP: 4
PvE(Instance): 3
PvE(Solo): 3
Comments: Underwhelming is what I think when I see this talent. Yes it does add damage and yes it is fun to hit a rogue using CloS with it but the long cast and fairly long CD make it kind of bleh.
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Post by
Blightman
Specs
One of the nice things about WotlK is that the number of viable raid builds has increased. Sliding: in most of these builds there are a few points that can be slid around that will not make a significant DPS change. There is also a point in each tree where some less stellar talents are picked so that you can progress further down the tree.
Currently Blizzard is working to make sure that all 3 trees stay raid viable. If all top raiders take are taking spec X expect to see changes from Blizzard to make specing Y and Z in the other trees more attractive. That is NOT saying that all 3 trees will have equal DPS. For example, expect demo to lag a bit on DPS as a corollary to their higher survivability.
When picking your spec think of a few things:
Do I like playing my lock this way - very important. I personally prefer Demo and use it
Will it increase my potential DPS - Having more DPS than other people in you raid is a side effect of you maximizing your DPS potential. It is possible to out DPS your raids and still not be doing as much DPS as you could
PvE(instance) specs are built for BOSS fights. Trash fights are secondary.
PvE(Instance):
I skip the +hit talents under the assumption you are hit capped through gear. If you are not then you WILL need them. In destro tree ,trade iSB for catclysm if you are not hit capped. In affliction tree, trade Improved Drain Soul for suppression if you are not hit capped. Keep in mind that your pet's hit rating is increased by +HIT from gear but not from talents.
Affliction:
Currently affliction is the best raid spec. The biggest weakness is a tight rotation. Blizzard has said they will work on that but no details. In case of collisions, immolate is your weakest DOT and it does not affect Soul Siphon.
54/0/15+2 Haunt/Ruin
- this build has 2 points still open, and it assumes you are not on CoE duty(ie. you are raiding with a boomkin).
56/0/15 Malediction
- if you don't have a boomkin and are going to be on CoE duty
56/0/15 Suppression
- if you are not hit capped through gear this will let you limp a long.
55/0/16 Haunt/Ruin(LT)
- this build skips Dark Pact and uses iLT for mana regen. The scaling of LT on spirit makes this a more mana efficient build in general.
Primary slides are:
Malediction - Death's Embrace - Eradication - Pandemic
Suppression - Improved Drain Soul - Fel Concentration
Initial cast order should be, for affliction:
(CoE/R) SB -> Haunt -> UA -> Immo -> (CoA) -> Corr -> SL
(SB spam and refresh time)
Once enemy health drops below 25% drop SB and use
Drain Soul
.
The 4x damage of max rank Drain Soul for the last 25% far
outperforms SB.
Raiders are seeing Drain Soul tick for
6k+
10k+.
Only stop DS to keep all affliction dots up so that you don't
lose the bonus from Soul Siphon(yes they stack)
Major Glyphs(Starter):
Glyph of Curse of Agony
Glyph of Corruption
Glyph of Unstable Affliction
Major Glyphs(Geared/Experienced):
Glyph of Shadowbolt
or
Glyph of Curse of Agony
Glyph of Siphon Life
Glyph of Immolate
The large number of spells needed to get great DPS from affliction can be a challenge when you first start it. Borking your rotation can cause a major DPS drop. The starter glyph set reduces the chance of getting you rotation borked/makes it easier to recover when it does get borked. Once you have some practice with the rotations or have gotten a good amount of haste then you should switch to the second glyph set.
Demonology:
The red headed step child of raid trees has now gained some popularity in WotlK. It is the least gear dependent and easiest raid spec out. Still has the weakness of massive DPS drop if pet dies but several changes have made that less common, most notably Fel Synergy.
0/50/21 FG/Devastation
- FG hits hard and so does the lock. Gives up the meta "trinket" for 5% more crit on devastation spells(don't think the FG gets any help from this).
1/49/21 Alternate FG/Devastation
- this one will use CoA to trigger more Molten Core procs for a spicier playing style/
0/41/30 FG/Ember
- popular build. Bit of a glass cannon and does not scale as well as FG/Devastation.
5/51/15 Meta/Ruin
- assumes you have a priest with
Improved Divine Spirit
or a shaman with
totem of Wrath
both of which will overwrite Demonic Pact
0/53/15 Demonic Pact
- use this if no priest/shammy
Primary slides are:
Improved Health Funnel - Master Conjuror - Improved Healthstone(To get past Unholy power you must pick 1 of these)
Improved Shadow Bolt - Cataclysm - Molten Core
If you are not hit capped move points from iSB into cataclysm until you get better gear
Initial cast order should be, for no MC:
send FG -> pop damage trinket -> metamorph -> CoD -> Corr -> Immo -> SB spam
Initial cast order should be, for w/ MC:
send FG -> pop damage trinket -> metamorph -> CoA -> Corr -> Immo -> SB spam
For FG/Ember builds use the destro rotation:
CoA -> Corr -> Immo -> Incen, repeat incen and refresh DOTs as needed.
Major Glyphs:
Glyph of Felguard
the 10% AP boost is to all AP not base AP. Raiders are seeing the FGs DPS over 1k.
Glyph of Immolate
- If you have Ruin then definitely take it. With this glyph you might move points from iSB to Molten Core.
Glyph of Curse of Agony
Destruction:
Requires more work now to provide great DPS. No longer is DS the only path to successful raiding with destro:The imp can provide good damage boost but adds the vulnerability of pet loss. No imp is tending to less damage. Destro is now heavily slanted to fire damage.
2/8/56+5 Chaos/Imp
- focuses on fire damage timing conflagrations is key to maximum DPS with this build. Frequently built out to Demonic Aegis in demo
0/30/40+1 SnF/Master Demon build
- this build has the hardest hitting imp. The locks fire damage is no joke either. Several good options fo the last point: Demonic Knowledge, Empowered Imp, Mana Feed, or Demonic Resilience
2/20/49 Unholy/imp
- Imp does good(600ish) DPS now but overall this spec does not perform as well.
0/21/50
- DS build, no longer champ of DPS. Does have the advantage in pet unfriendly fights.
Primary Slides:
Improved Shadow Bolt - Cataclysm(got to pick on to get to ruin and emberstorm)
Conflagrate -Soul Leech - Backdraft
CoA is preferred over CoD because it can trigger Molten Core. Basic rotation is:
CoA -> Corr -> Immo -> Incen, repeat incen and refresh DOTs as needed.
Major Glyphs:
Glyph of Imp
- any imp based build should have this
Glyph of Immolate
- large DPS boost with Ruin
Glyph of Curse of Agony
- required if you have molten core
Glyph of Conflagrate
- required if you have the conflagrate talent
PvP
Not sure yet if I will post a PvP arena vs non-arena PvP specs.
ALL PvP specs should have
these
demo talents.
52/14/5 Haunt
Glyph of Howl of Terror
Glyph of Unstable Affliction
2/14/52 Chaos Bolt
Glyph of Shadowburn
Glyph of Searing Pain
2/51/18 Meta/Ruin
Glyph of Felguard
Glyph for any PvP builds:
Glyph of Fear
Glyph of Death Coil
Glyph of Healthstone
Goto:
Top Of Section
Top Of Post
Post by
Blightman
Ack, 3.0.08 came out and several glyphs changed. I will get around to glyph math soon(maybe), check the spec section for glyph recommendations.
Post by
Blightman
Also Reserved
Post by
Schmerzgeber
You should never be using Curse of Weakness in PvP except for when the hunter throws his IWIN button. For a +20% boost on this spell for one situation in PvP, it most definitely does not deserve a 4/5. We can't kite when he throws his IWIN button, but as a warlock, especially affliction, kiting is the name of the game.
Didn't see your comment about using CoR in a raid. No. CoA or CoE is your best bet.
Other than that, it looks good.
Post by
Blightman
You should never be using Curse of Weakness in PvP except for when the hunter throws his IWIN button. For a +20% boost on this spell for one situation in PvP, it most definitely does not deserve a 4/5. We can't kite when he throws his IWIN button, but as a warlock, especially affliction, kiting is the name of the game.
Didn't see your comment about using CoR in a raid. No. CoA or CoE is your best bet.
Other than that, it looks good.
Thank you for your feed back.
As I said at the start of the comments on Frailty, it is a very situational talent. You may not find youself in a sitution where it may be usefull.
I disagree with saying never use CoW in PvP, as I said CoW is generally for pets only.
As far as CoR in a raid:
Lot of casters: 1 lock applies COE
Lot of melee: 1 lock applies CoR unless Faerie Fire is up(they don't stack). CoR stacks with sunder and will increase melee DPS substantialy.
Once raid DPS boosting curses are up then: CoD unless you have CoA+GoA
Post by
178385
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
irharry
good on you blightman, this is needed!
I disagree with Imp CoAg, its a very strong talent. The majority of "top end" desto raiders spend 2 points in it, glyph it, and use it as a molten core proc machine. Its dps is good, but more importantly it ticks regularly so keeps molten core up. If you raid aff, you'll want to use this curse for dps reasons. If you play demo/desto, you should be fire specced, so you should want this for the MC procs.
I think you grossly underestimate the value of Demonic Brutality for felguard locks - if for no ther reason than theres simply nothing else there thats anywhere near as good. IMHO, deserves a 5 for felguard locks, and a 1 for anyone else.
Good call on mana feed, i completely agree with your 0/3 for pvp, 1/3 for raiding, 2/3 for solo.
Demonic Empowerment should be a 5 all round i think - If for no other reason than because its off the GCD. When it took a GCD, it was useless. !@#$ on a bull useless. Now its pretty damn good, I suggest working it into a trinket macro so you don't have to use it manually.
check your numbers on shadow mastery :)
Post by
Schmerzgeber
More feedback! I'm not going to read into the other two trees; I won't lie, I've played heavy Affliction since day 1.
In PvP, Death's Embrace is good, but it's not that good. I've found Eradication to be much more useful than it is. Affliction doesn't fall below 20% health much; when we do, it's usually lights out at that point. Also, bear in mind that we lose the +30% bonus when we go above the 20% mark. It's not going to be useful for more than a few seconds at best. +12% damage for 1/3 of the fight might seem really good, but I've noticed that if my targets are this low already, they're not going to be alive much longer. All in all, it just isn't worth the 3 points, given how tight the Affliction tree is. The basic PvP tree is 54/17/0, picking up Master Summoner. This requires very tight point use, and Death's Embrace simply just doesn't cut it. Don't get me wrong, it would be a nice talent to have, but due to the point restraints of PvP Affliction builds, it's hard to have.
Also, when it comes to Pandemic, I'd favor it if it Affliction weren't so tight on points. As Affliction, your crit chance isn't going to be very high anyway, so the damage gained tends to not be as much as I'd like. Still good, but not the best.
I'd also like to comment on Improved Felhunter. As Affliction, especially in PvP, you will be rolling with it most of the time. It gives an improvement to a nice raidwide buff that improves not only intellect and spirit, but spellpower as well due to Fel Armor. Not only this, but the ability for your Felhunter to regain mana when coupled with Dark Pact means less times when you're going to find yourself OOM, which is always good. It definitely deserves more than a 1/5.
Shadow Mastery is 15%, not 5%
Malediction isn't that bad, due to giving +1% spell damage per point, but due to the tightness of Affliction, it must be passed up. Should be a 2 perhaps?
Just my input. Looking good! Good luck.
Post by
asakawa
good work! i look forward to seeing more.
Post by
Kobrakai
I don't know if i'm the only one or something, but Nefarion's stickies still show up for me at the top of the forum the same as before...
Post by
178385
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
178385
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
irharry
hit report, then one of the options is "sticky"
Post by
Schmerzgeber
I don't know if i'm the only one or something, but Nefarion's stickies still show up for me at the top of the forum the same as before...
They're still there, but are the posts that he had all there still? If so, please repost them so we have guides to go by.
Post by
Blightman
Thanks irlharry: First I have defined what ranks 1-5 mean and reranked a few talents. So some of you feedback doesn't match the post anymore(happens on working docs). i will reply based on the post you replied to as best I can :)
I disagree with Imp CoAg, its a very strong talent. The majority of "top end" desto raiders spend 2 points in it, glyph it, and use it as a molten core proc machine. Its dps is good, but more importantly it ticks regularly so keeps molten core up. If you raid aff, you'll want to use this curse for dps reasons. If you play demo/desto, you should be fire specced, so you should want this for the MC procs.
If you read the comments you will see that with GoA it is indeed ranked higher. The overall ranking is geared more at an affliction build. I can see ranking it 5 if you are not affliction and are cherry picking it for a specific purpose. I have added a note to iCoA about this
I think you grossly underestimate the value of Demonic Brutality for felguard locks - if for no ther reason than theres simply nothing else there thats anywhere near as good. IMHO, deserves a 5 for felguard locks, and a 1 for anyone else.
I have defined my ranks and I think after you review the "new" ranks and additional comments for DB you will be happier
Demonic Empowerment should be a 5 all round i think - If for no other reason than because its off the GCD. When it took a GCD, it was useless. !@#$ on a bull useless. Now its pretty damn good, I suggest working it into a trinket macro so you don't have to use it manually.
Still can't be used when the lock is silenced, stunned, feared, polymorphed, mind controlled, etc.
It also will not break banish.
For now I'm going to stick with: must have it for PvP, ok to have in PvE(instance), good to have in PvE(solo)
If you want to post some numbers on relative DPS boost, I can be convinced to change this.
check your numbers on shadow mastery :)
Fixed.
Post by
Blightman
In PvP, Death's Embrace is good, but it's not that good. I've found Eradication to be much more useful than it is. Affliction doesn't fall below 20% health much; when we do, it's usually lights out at that point. Also, bear in mind that we lose the +30% bonus when we go above the 20% mark. It's not going to be useful for more than a few seconds at best. +12% damage for 1/3 of the fight might seem really good, but I've noticed that if my targets are this low already, they're not going to be alive much longer. All in all, it just isn't worth the 3 points, given how tight the Affliction tree is. The basic PvP tree is 54/17/0, picking up Master Summoner. This requires very tight point use, and Death's Embrace simply just doesn't cut it. Don't get me wrong, it would be a nice talent to have, but due to the point restraints of PvP Affliction builds, it's hard to have.
This seems a bit situational. What type of PvP are you talking about? BGs or arena? The rankings are not actively "conscious" of budgets/builds
Also, when it comes to Pandemic, I'd favor it if it Affliction weren't so tight on points. As Affliction, your crit chance isn't going to be very high anyway, so the damage gained tends to not be as much as I'd like. Still good, but not the best.
Even without budget considerations I can't rank it above 3. The fact that it is for only 2 our of 5 affliction DOTs hurts it a lot.
I'd also like to comment on Improved Felhunter. As Affliction, especially in PvP, you will be rolling with it most of the time. It gives an improvement to a nice raidwide buff that improves not only intellect and spirit, but spellpower as well due to Fel Armor. Not only this, but the ability for your Felhunter to regain mana when coupled with Dark Pact means less times when you're going to find yourself OOM, which is always good. It definitely deserves more than a 1/5.
Again which type of PvP? For BGs it would deserve a higher rank than for arenas, duels, or even random gank attempts in world PvP. Basically for short intense PvP action it is not very strong.
Shadow Mastery is 15%, not 5%
Fixed
Malediction isn't that bad, due to giving +1% spell damage per point, but due to the tightness of Affliction, it must be passed up. Should be a 2 perhaps?
If the spell damage bonus was constant and not just against the target with CoE on it i I would rank it 3 for PvP and PvE(solo). But since CoE is rarely cast in PvP or PvE(solo) it is not good.
The spell damage bonus is up whther CoE is used or not
Please keep the feedback coming
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