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Skeleton Keys and rights to the contents within
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187275
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226826
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Post by
Zmobie
In most of the parties I've been in so far no one has argued over the shards at all, actually, no one asked me for them or they said that I should keep them when I told them to roll for them. So obviously there is some kind of large group of people that sees it like this as well.
My rant is over for now, good night everyone.
This is different...
In most groups I'm in with an enchanter, at the end of the run, I'll suggest they keep one shard for being helpful and nice and DE'ing everything... But it's more of an act of gesture, kind of like a thank you gift of sorts.
If you tell the group you'd take a shard tax, you're enforcing it on them, which sounds worse, because we don't have much of a choice about this kind of thing. What if only one item is DE'd, do you just keep the Shard since it's the only one?...
I don't mind giving a shard to an enchanter after the instance as a thanks, but it should be my/the groups decision, not just the enchanter's.
Post by
TheOnyx
I regularly party with 2-4 people I know in real life. The habit we have formed is this: They ignore the chests, I shout "ninja" as I go to loot it, we roll on uncommon or better contents, and if anyone wanted anything out of it, I give it to them. Otherwise, I vendor it.
RE: Pugs: You don't give up minerals you mine in an instance or herbs you gather in an instance, and I look at a mineral node in a 5-man with one miner the same way I look at a locked chest with a rogue or blacksmith with a key: the character took the right profession to get the goods. If multiple people can tap the mineral node, we'd roll for it. I'd do the same with locked chests.
Seems reasonable, although I think more people equate a locked chest with an unlocked one because they both have items inside they want (to vendor or AH). O_o
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241164
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126472
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Post by
MrFredII
Yeah, but I take my shard tax. My Argument:
If you want the 30g shards from the 5g vendor items, its cool with me, but I take my shard tax or you don't get any shards. Tax is 1st shard, and every multiple of 5. 99% of groups will say "Sure!" as it is my proffesion and I can choose to be nice or not. Like that engineer (or Blacksmith), he can CHOOSE to blow open that chest, and thus gets all loot EXCEPT blue or higher, in which group rolls.
Tax? You are not the government - you are charging a fee. When we form a group we ask who can DE. Then we ask if they are willing to DE for the party and we'll all roll on the shards. They are not required to say yes. Once you explained your "policy" the group would decide what to do. If we have another person who can DE and would do so with no fee either you would agree to those rules or we'd find another 5th. If there are no other enchanters in the group we would either drop you anyway and seek someone else, or we'd decline your fee and everyone would roll, or maybe we'd negotiate a different deal. In any event you can be sure that we'd not offer to group with you again.
As for your "costs" to level enchanting. You can DE your soul bound gear and the BoEs you acquire through normal questing or grinding. You are free to charge a fee for DEing for others outside of an instance party. With that fee you can buy the shards you need. All professions require expense and effort. This is why I wish that blizzard would allow the disenchanting of items soul bound to someone else. I would happily pay a fee for that service.
As was said above, it requires the effort of the group to get the items. Whatever your rationalization for charging the group can decide if they'll accept it.
Post by
modrogon
If I'm on my rogue, "Ok everyone rolls and I'll unlock it:"
On my pally engineer in BC. I'll sometimes open it then have the group roll and sometimes I'll go back after the group leaves and open it myself. It all depends on the group.
Post by
dhampir1989
I consider DEing my contribution to the group, as I dont require reagents.
If I were to start being a capitalist &*!@#, Id have to pay mages for portals and food, most people for group buffs, druids for CRs.........
Post by
Draconia
If you want the 30g shards from the 5g vendor items, its cool with me, but I take my shard tax or you don't get any shards. Tax is 1st shard, and every multiple of 5. 99% of groups will say "Sure!" as it is my proffesion and I can choose to be nice or not. Like that engineer (or Blacksmith), he can CHOOSE to blow open that chest, and thus gets all loot EXCEPT blue or higher, in which group rolls.
Wow, no offense, but I would never want to run with you dude. I mean, it's not like it costs you anything to DE the item, so a shard tax is just plain silly and unneeded, kind of greedy as well.
Back on topic though, I say it's up for grabs like loot from locked chests and stuff. I've never seen a rogue say it's mine because I can lockpick, same as I don't ever expect a BS to say that because they can as well.
I have never understood why non enchanters think they have a right to the enchanters %^&*. Any one who thinks that they have automatic dibs and that the enchanter is their DE bot is either a greedy newb, a tard, or a troll. I'm serious, noone ever makes a miner hand over his ore. But on another note I hate it when the enchanter just gets automatic dibs on all greens up. Hey I like loot too, I can AH or sell %^&* or get a encahnter to DE it for some cash. I've literally had epic rings drop that I could use that had badass +stats and spell dmg and they give it to the war cuz he can DE even though it was a major upgrade over my ring, sigh. So don't hate on the enchanters and don't let them walk all over you either and if you disagree I either typed it out bass ackwards or you're a moron. so GL hating on the enchanters on your server, I hope they refuse to enchant your @#$%.
Post by
Draconia
Yeah, but I take my shard tax. My Argument:
If you want the 30g shards from the 5g vendor items, its cool with me, but I take my shard tax or you don't get any shards. Tax is 1st shard, and every multiple of 5. 99% of groups will say "Sure!" as it is my proffesion and I can choose to be nice or not. Like that engineer (or Blacksmith), he can CHOOSE to blow open that chest, and thus gets all loot EXCEPT blue or higher, in which group rolls.
Tax? You are not the government - you are charging a fee. When we form a group we ask who can DE. Then we ask if they are willing to DE for the party and we'll all roll on the shards. They are not required to say yes. Once you explained your "policy" the group would decide what to do. If we have another person who can DE and would do so with no fee either you would agree to those rules or we'd find another 5th. If there are no other enchanters in the group we would either drop you anyway and seek someone else, or we'd decline your fee and everyone would roll, or maybe we'd negotiate a different deal. In any event you can be sure that we'd not offer to group with you again.
As for your "costs" to level enchanting. You can DE your soul bound gear and the BoEs you acquire through normal questing or grinding. You are free to charge a fee for DEing for others outside of an instance party. With that fee you can buy the shards you need. All professions require expense and effort. This is why I wish that blizzard would allow the disenchanting of items soul bound to someone else. I would happily pay a fee for that service.
As was said above, it requires the effort of the group to get the items. Whatever your rationalization for charging the group can decide if they'll accept it.
Wow I can't even imagine how stupid these ppl are in RL. You can't tax us, you're not the government, Dee dee dee! Oh yeah you're going to spend an hour + trying to find another person because someone didn't want to fork over all their shards to you? A) You're a lying sack of #$%^ and would in no way sit around not being in an instance just because of this and B) How much money and time are you going to waste waiting for a 5th person?
LOL your argument is you can't make any money off us from DEing and you don't need it because you make money off DEing? How counter intuitive is that? Yeah all professions do require effort that's why armor kits aren't free metal bars aren't free, yet you expect him to do his prof for you for free? Riiiiiiigggghhhhttt.......
I now know why nefarion has gone insane. I used to just lurk but there are so many stupid posts put up all the time that I can't help but point out how utterly bad they are and how far off base they are.
Post by
Styke
Use your keys when you're solo. Let a rogue handle the rest.
Post by
blademeld
Oh the stupidity.
I leveled an enchanter to 375, BS to 375, alch to 375, and engineer to 362
I can tell you right now that in terms of prices, BS >= Engineering >= Enchanting in terms of costs.
Even if "taxing", as put in a skewed definition, is a correct thing to do, in your opinions I mean, all you enchanters here have no right to criticize the BS/Engineers, since it costs BS/Engineers their training fee AND it costs them a device fee.
If you are a BS or an Engineer, there's a easy way to be nice and still be fair to yourself and all the group members, offer your services as a BS/Engineer for free, but charge for the skeleton key/explosive.
I know I charged 2G per person for my arcanite skeleton keys, yes, it was a bit cheaper since I was an alchemist and I was a miner on an alt, making it comparatively cheaper (15G per bar at the time) and no one complained, if they didn't want to pay, i wasn't going to waste my key opening it.
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