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Druids are lesser end game raiding tanks TBC!
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Post by
Lingchao
Like I said in my previous posts I was wrong in which category I put this, so cry more tzipora. Sarge, appreciate the time ya put into this lol. You definitely do know a lot more than I do and appreciate you enlightening me on the actual statistical side of tanking. Not sure how this thread is pointless though. I'm open to the subject and not attacking anyone. I may have been a bit too ignorant on the actual statistical side of druids vs. war tanks in saying wars are better at mting with no idea of the math behind it. While I still think that wars are generally a better choice than druids end game tbc raids, you still have yet to change my opinion. Yes, there are certain fights where druids have an advantage over wars not denying that. I just don't believe there are more druid friendly fights (druid friendly as in druids have the best survivability). Thanks for reading and don't take offense^^.
Hope you have a great day too sarge! lol..
Post by
Aadramelekh
Copy paste from a thread on the same theme opened yesterday:
After playing up to level 80 on my feral druid and trying out heroics and 10 man Naxxramas, I can say that feral druids can definitely compare with warriors as main tanks in raids. Hell, I completed Naxxramas 10 man with another feral as partner in tanking.
The fact that the uber armored leather is out of the question now and you won't be seeing 35K armor bears has been balanced with another thing: a talent. Now, using armor rings, armor amulet, some lvl 80 blues/epics and a no armor staff, plus the Badge of Tenacity, I stand at 29K HP unbuffed and 24K armor in bear form.
That 24K armor corresponds to around 63% physical damage reduction vs lvl 80 mobs. And about 60% against raid bosses. True, that is no longer the 75% I had agains raid bosses at level 70, in 35K armor. BUT the uber talent Protector of the Pack does something wonderful for bears: for each member in party, I get 3% DMG reduction from ALL sources (magic DMG too). So, in a full 5 man party, I have 12% bonus DMG reduction from all sources in bear form. And bingo! that brings me up to 72% physical DMG reduction against raid bosses. Full Tier 7 leather gear combined with armor amulet and rings, plus an armor staff will get me back to 75% physical DMG reduction against raid bosses and also 12% magic DMG reduction. That is pretty neat. Of course, I don't have the uber avoidance of a warrior (dodge+block+parry), I only have 36% dodge right now and around +1% miss chance from some defense rating on my gear (although actually gearing up for defense rating is no longer an objective of the feral druid, Survival of the Fittest takes care of that with 6% received crit chance reduction). But with 34000 HP in Naxxramas 10, with capable healers behind, absolutely no boss in there was able to grind me down. Hell, I once ran with a 27K HP warrior as MT and me as OT. After the first 3 bosses I was MT and he got to be OT. Because now feral druids can tank like a dream. And in the tank gear I have (no T7 piece yet, and not even any T6 pieces left), I can generate threat like mad, since on a target that is bleeding (Lacerate) and mangled, I get 5500 maul critical hits (33% crit chance and 5000 AP in bear form). That is bigger than the 5000 shred crits I get in cat form DPS (37% crit and 5800 AP in cat form).
Conclusion for feral druids. They WILL be a viable endgame tanking option. For ANY boss is my guess now. Reasons?
Section A - Damage mitigation and avoidance:
1 - Protector of the Pack talent = +12% DMG reduction from all sources;
2 - Natural Reaction talent = +6% dodge and 3 rage generated when dodging an attack;
3 - Barkskin usable in forms now = instant 20% additional DMG reduction (applied AFTER the normal DMG reduction - meaning that a hit for 1000 DMG in normal conditions now does only 800 DMG with Barkskin) for 12 seconds ( and 4 piece T7 bonus gives 3 seconds more to barkskin 15 seconds FTW). 1 min cooldown FTW;
4 - Survival Instincts talent = for 20 seconds, adds a 30% of total HP bonus. Using this I got up to 44000 HP in Naxxramas, raid buffed. 3 min cooldown;
5 - Frenzied Regeneration now heals proportionally with total current HP (0.3% of total health per point of rage, so 100 rage FR = 30% of total health healed in 10 seconds FTW!) and in addition, the bear receives +20% healing while FR is active if they use Glyph of Frenzied Regeneration. 3 min cooldown;
6 - Healthstones and Health Potions usable in forms now;
Section B - Threat generation:
1 - Mangle now increases Maul by 30% as well;
2 - Savage Fury talent = +20% damage to Maul;
3 - Rend and Tear talent = +20% damage to Maul on bleeding targets;
4 - Feral Instinct Talent = +30% damage to Swipe - better AoE tanking. And besides, Swipe will now hit ALL targets in front of the bear, not only three as before. Better job AoE tanking.
Result: A mangled and bleeding target receives +70% damage from maul (hence my 2400-2500 Maul hits and 5500+ Maul crits). And the 400+ normal / 800+ crits I get with maul make sure my secondary tanking targets don't run off to the healers.
So you see I mean business. This is serious thread. Serious cat says so.
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y239/BlackHeart004/LOLCAT/serious.jpg
Post by
209234
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Post by
besaba
There was a blue post concerning this today, they're working very hard to make all four tanking classes as equal as possible in wotlk. Thank god, because having to use x class for x instance is freaking annoying if they don't log on when you need them.
Post by
150313
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109094
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Post by
Lingchao
My point of this is not that druids can't main tank..I have said many times either in this thread or the one this whole argument started that they can. Please quote me where I said they can't tank! I've only said that warriors make better choices.
Lingchao said:
As a feral druid and hearing that I can tank as well as a warrior in BC is the funniest thing I've ever heard. Obviously it is your ignorance talking, I'll leave it be and say out of opinion that Druids (from what I've read) are not going to be up to par. The itemization (taking out feral druid specific gear) that is sort of blending rogue's and druid's gear together is leaving feral druids with a lot less armor and int/spr. Setting this aside, I don't think that it is fair to judge all the tanks quite yet. Having heard of death knight mainly specced into blood and is currently tanking the raids in wotlk. Plenty of time for changes.
Parrazell said:
Dude you need to check your info before posting.
InTBC the only fight a druid couldn't tank was Illidan and that was only due to 1 ability he had
. Personally I have tanked as a feral every boss up to and including 5/9 BT. If you couldnt do that, then that is your failings as a tank.
So you like many others twist my words and claim that I say druids suck, druids can't tank whatever. That was never my argument. I just say warriors are the best choice for main tanks and druids are not. I never said they were incapable, but I may have made it sound like I thought they were when I say "wars can do it better". I'll agree with you when you say "So why then are Warriors typically picked over druids as MT on a boss? Simply that druids to better dps than warriors when not tanking. In a raid where you have 3-4 tanks, on most boss fights you will only need 1 tank. The rest of the time you want those spare tanks to do as much damage as possible. Of the 3 current tanking classes the one that does most damage while not tanking is the druid. Thats why they typically dont main tank, not because they are incapable but because they have better ways to improve the raid." Maybe I'm wrong in saying wars can do it better. Maybe I should just say its the druid's flexibility that doesn't make them the main tank and not the warrior's ability. Maybe someone will change my view of this in 24 hours, lol. Still doesn't change the fact that Warriors are chosen over Druids to main tank! Now I just see the reasoning behind it.
"And please stop ending your posts with 'please dont take offence' statements. You a clearly trying to cause offence with sweeping and unfounded statements about druid tanking inadequecies and some directed personal attacks. Talking about the previous topic here with the comment:
Linchso said:
P.S. Parrazell, take some english classes my friend or finish highschool, lol.
Like I said before, just becuase you fail at being a druid doesnt mean all druids fail. Just look at the responses here, every says that yes druids can MT, you say druids cant MT. Let me guess; your not wrong the rest of the world of warcraft is"
Well I actually didn't end that post with "Don't take offense" but again, thanks for twisting almost everything I say and where I say it. You really should think about taking some classes though..lol. I'm not going to be all nice and respectful when people aren't being nice and respectful to me. The posts I do say that in I just want to remind people that if I sound like an ass, I'm not trying to be and sorry if I am.
Thanks for reading and don't take offense^^.
(except for Parrazell, atleast I spell your name right^^.)
Post by
223742
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223403
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Post by
Lingchao
More of my opinions, yeah. Has definitely changed throughout my posts. My last post about the whole subject was that warriors don't necessarily out tank druids, they just arn't as flexible as druids are (cat/bear form). So warriors are chosen to be main tanks over the druids. When only one tank is necessary druids can obviously go to dps mode and be more effecient (maybe not the right word) than the prot war dpsing and the druid tanking.
Post by
tilgare
Wow...can we just post without getting mad or taking offense?
That's why I rarely post on forums... most people on teh intarwebs are #$%^&*bags. Probably over compensating for something.
Post by
besaba
crushing blows are removed in wotlk I believe, and viola! awesome bear tanks.
Post by
175113
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126203
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223403
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223403
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Post by
Lingchao
How the hell am I whining? lol. I'm not saying why the @#$% do druids get picked over wars, QQ. If you don't like my so called "blabbering" then you can just close this window and never come to this thread again^^. Where do pallies come into play here sarge? This is not about druids and paladins. Its about my first statement that is in big letters at the top of the page. "Its all about whos go the skills/abilities." So someone that has tanked all the end game raids mean they can do it on another char, same class, and do it when they just hit 70? They can go tank sunwell even though their gear sucks. It only matters how skilled they are? Really? I just want people to either prove or disprove my statement. Quite a few people have helped me on the subject and i'll stop posting once I've been totally proved or disproved on the point (or obviously when nobody posts anything). The one post that says they have learned something voids all the whines of "troll" and 'this is a terrible thread". Thanks for reading and don't take offense^^.
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223403
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223403
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160947
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