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Question to high end raiding rogues from a guild leader...
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Post by
dslyecix
You haven't read my shiz before then because for a 73 mob/boss it is always true.
Gem for hit
Yellow sockets = rigid gems
Red sockets = glinting gems or delicate gems (if you are at your hit cap), only for a DPS based socket bonus
Blue sockets = shifting gems x2 for your RED requirement (in your 2 best DPS based socket bonuses) and then Rigid gems up to your cap.
This is the best gemming for lvl 73 mobs/bosses.
You can check that on your spreadsheet and it will hold true.
Well this is what I've always heard... However the spreadsheet, right now as I look at it... On my Merc Spaulders, I currently have a Jagged Talasite (6sta/4crit) on one socket. I was just using cheap offhand gems to get the PvP bonus (3 resil) because that's obviously what these shoulders are mainly for. If I replace the Talasite with a +8 hit or a +10 hit, the spreadsheet says I lose ~10 to ~12 DPS respectively.
All the boss settings are the default, level 73 etc etc. Any reason why the spreadsheet is either wrong or why the above rule isn't true in this case?
Post by
Feanora
To clarify a bit: your enhancement shaman
must
be at least dropping windfury in the melee group to warrant a raid spot, and any half-decent enh shammy will be
totem twisting
. In order for your rogues to receive any benefits from this, they must only use poisons on their offhands. These poisons will usually be deadly poison, although in certain fights (Anetheron, for example) they will switch it to wound. Shiv is not worth using; the poisons will apply themselves naturally.
As far as the warlocks go, if you only have two one should be applying curse of recklessness and one should be applying curse of elements. Period. By using agony, doom, or any other curse, they're only hurting the raid. On a related note, I think one of the biggest problems your guild has is that many of your raiders are looking out for themselves first of all. Raiding is very reliant on synergy; if everyone is working together, everyone will do better and your raid will be considerably more successful.
Lastly, on the feral druid issue, first you need to take a look at your hunter issue. Why are you bringing four hunters to a raid? Unless they're all your top dps, which they aren't, you'd be better off trading two or so of them out for more support classes, such as a ret pally or a shadow priest, or more shamans. With that said, you're better off moving the feral druid into the melee group for the synergy reason cited above. The druid will receive battle shout and grace of air, which are both huge buffs, and he'll benefit greatly the other melee classes as well. Hunters, on the other hand, are not a highly buff-dependant class, which is why in many raids you'll see them in caster groups in order to give them a shadow priest, as well as give their damage buff to the warlocks and mages. Again, it's all a matter of synergy.
A final note: what's been going on here has been entirely from the melee point of view. I suggest you find a place to evaluate your other classes as well in the same vein as this thread. I imagine you'll find quite a few things you could be doing differently for greater effect.
edit: also, for a quick dps boost, get as many players as possible to roll leatherworking for
Drums of Battle
. It's not too hard or expensive to grind leatherworking, and the dps boost really is a noticeable one.
Post by
107997
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
107997
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Qlix
Lastly, on the feral druid issue, first you need to take a look at your hunter issue. Why are you bringing four hunters to a raid? Unless they're all your top dps, which they aren't, you'd be better off trading two or so of them out for more support classes, such as a ret pally or a shadow priest, or more shamans.
Fact is our Hunters are usually the most consistent and over the course of a raid are our highest DPS. The Locks dps is high cuz of all the AoE tanking we do. Besides that we really dont have many SP's (2 that are raid ready) and both are alts (zalast and shillay) and the 2 shammies in the raid... thats all we have of them too. We are frantically trying to recruit shammies at the moment. But the hunters are there based on consistency and availability if that makes sense.
Shiv is terrible. As noted, there is no reason to use it. Rogues should have WF on their MH and Deadly Poison OH...period. For bosses like Anetheron or Naj'entus, get an MS warrior or have your hunters Aim Shot.
lost me on this one. I know theres
Windfury Weapon
and theres
Windfury Totem
The totem is an aura isnt it? and Windfury Weapon is only usable by a Shammy, am i wrong? If im not how can a rogue have WF on the MH as you stated?
Post by
107997
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Feanora
Lame, everyone's ignoring me.
/sulk
Post by
Qlix
Because the WF totem aura acts like a temporary enchant to the MH weapon of those affected by the aura.
this i did not know. Thanks for that bit of knowledge. Question then... lets say they have a poison on the MH... will WF overwrite it or vise versa? Or will it basically be a poisoned weapon w/ windfury? rogue mechanic i dont quite understand yet. I only ask cuz you said "WF MH and Deadly OH... period" as if the WF will cancel out any poison on the MH or whatever.
Lame, everyone's ignoring me.
/sulk
did you not see that I quoted you and responded? lol
Post by
140590
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Feanora
Kek. You edited that in after I whined. I think. Maybe. Anyway, if you're a bit top-heavy on hunters, that's fine; to paraphrase from a war criminal, I understand you have to go to war with the army you have, not the one you wish you had. But even so, the hunters are all pretty self-sufficient over there in their little group. They don't really need the druid; the melee does. Again, it'll help everyone's dps, except maybe the hunters, but the gains for everyone else should far outweigh that small loss.
Post by
107997
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Qlix
That still doesn't mean that if one of your warriors when MS, which they should he'd be in the tank group with the resto shammy getting WF.
Moving the Kitty drood to the melee group has the synergies that I noted above for the entire party. Not only does the drood get the benefit of GoA from the twisting, but he gets battle shout and unleashed rage. Further LotP makes unleashed rage better by increasing the shaman's crit. Thus ensuring better AP for all 5 in the group. It's just better synergy regardless of the "skill" or consistency of your hunters, LotP in the melee group in your current raid makeup is better for raid dps, even with your weak rogues. The hunters aren't that stellar either, generally speaking.
Edit: One of you, the hunters, needs to go survival.
wasnt commenting on the druid being moved... just responding to why we have so many hunters. As far as survival, its in the thread on the guild forum im compiling.
oh... and im ignoring the "non-stellar" hunter comments
Post by
dslyecix
Well this is what I've always heard... However the spreadsheet, right now as I look at it... On my Merc Spaulders, I currently have a Jagged Talasite (6sta/4crit) on one socket. I was just using cheap offhand gems to get the PvP bonus (3 resil) because that's obviously what these shoulders are mainly for. If I replace the Talasite with a +8 hit or a +10 hit, the spreadsheet says I lose ~10 to ~12 DPS respectively.
All the boss settings are the default, level 73 etc etc. Any reason why the spreadsheet is either wrong or why the above rule isn't true in this case?
You heard wrong. The only thing I can think of when dropping a terrible gem like a Jagged Talasite for a Rigid gem and you lose DPS is that you're losing your Meta prerequiste with that or you're hit capped. Without seeing you I cannot know. The only other option is that you are doing something wrong or your spreadsheet is borked and you need to download a fresh copy because a formula has been messed up.
Yeah, you caught it. It was the metagem requirement that was getting borked if I switched that out. I'm definitely not at the hit cap.
Post by
107997
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Feanora
Not to undermine
lucsoke
, but a survival hunter is never
needed
; it's worth doing if you persist in bringing an entire group's worth of hunters to every raid, but many guilds (including mine) are able to be quite successful without one, even with a heavy physical dps component. Just my two cents. And it's not worth bringing a survival hunter to T6 content if he or she does not have around 800 agility or more. My roommate was able to get 900 agility unbuffed before he got T6 and before T6 badge gear came out, so make sure if you're going to do it, you do it properly.
Post by
107997
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Qlix
My point sir is that you are going off into tangents that you dont need to go into.
again... gear isnt what makes the player most of the time but assuming the same skill gear becomes the next factor. And you seem to forget your level of progression compared to ours.
I assume youre speaking of Zubzubb as your survival hunter. Id be shocked if he didnt out DPS every one of our hunters. But again this isnt the hunter thread and the only thing helpful to THIS thread is saying that LoP is more beneficial to the melee than the hunters. no sensitivity envolved ;-)
it takes more than "non stellar" hunters to get me wound up lol. Again... I asked so I expect the critique.
notice i say everything with a smile =P
Post by
Qlix
Not to undermine
lucsoke
, but a survival hunter is never
needed
; it's worth doing if you persist in bringing an entire group's worth of hunters to every raid, but many guilds (including mine) are able to be quite successful without one, even with a heavy physical dps component. Just my two cents. And it's not worth bringing a survival hunter to T6 content if he or she does not have around 800 agility or more. My roommate was able to get 900 agility unbuffed before he got T6 and before T6 badge gear came out, so make sure if you're going to do it, you do it properly.
It's worth doing when you have as much physical DPS as they do. All true points though with regard to agility. Do you need it a survival hunter? Of course not, that's like saying you need a ret pally or a boomkin. Is it worthwhile? Hell yes, especially when you have 3-4 hunters in your raid, and as much physical damage dealers as they do.
Hopefully your stocking up on Crimson Spinels and got all your epic gem nodes last night on your way up to the horde camp.
yes sir... did that. and as far as stocking up on CS's... i just finished aquiring all the badge gear i need for myself so those are now the next priority. should have all my gems replaced very shortly.
Post by
107997
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
107997
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
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