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Best Gem Combo for Relentless Earthstorm Diamond
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Post by
105944
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Wanderingfox
the difference between ap and agi is negligible it is personal preference (someone may find it easier to gear for crit and ap at the same time) ap beats agi was never my argument
it was what you were saying about geming and how you were putting so much emphasis on suvivability when rogues imo will be the last thing focused while neglecting any useful stat is wrong gemming for them when its unessissary is incorect
based on that which is what most high end rogue live by i would prefer ap over agi b/c it is more raw dps
dont believe me?
compendium
or just google it when you find a rogue high end rogue gearing for resil or dodge get back to me
A high end rogue won't be gearing for resil because s4 (and comparable gear) will put you at almost 400 resil without the need to gem for it. Thus your "prove it to me" argument is moot to begin with because they don't exist.
What I was talking about was a more... realistic... level (ie. normal rogues) will be targeted rather quickly. At least that's what every single one of my arena teams has done (including my 1900 rated 5v5 from s2-s3 and my new 2v2 in s4).
A rogue's job in arenas in most setups is to force things to happen (certain setups of course have the rogue as the main source of dps). By this I mean it typically falls on the rogue to force healers to trinket/ns/bubble, and keep them out of the fight while the rest of your team drops the other targets.
In fact the only situations I can think of where this isn't the rogue's job is in rogue/rogue and rogue/healer 2v2 teams, and 3v3 teams where the rogue is the only source of dps.
For example, in my rogue/frost mage team, any time there is an anti-rogue class on the other team (rogue/warrior/hunter/etc) I will be immediately focused down the second I'm out of stealth because they will attempt to save their healer.
Can you gear as a glass cannon? Ya, but with anything less than 350 resil you will simply not last long enough to be of any substantial benefit to your team.
Also, I don't believe I said ANYTHING about gearing for dodge, just that without resilience you won't typically last long enough to do anything really useful.
Then again, to each his own.
Post by
105944
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
105944
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Wanderingfox
What I was talking about was a more... realistic... level (ie. normal rogues) will be targeted rather quickly. At least that's what every single one of my arena teams has done (including my 1900 rated 5v5 from s2-s3 and my new 2v2 in s4).
this is simply not true, if the other team is dumb enough to target the rogue first and not the healer/caster then they have already lost as a team and they would never have been paired with a team 1900s in the first place, because they would have trouble breaking 1600
strategies
pick a combo then pick a matchup (besides all melee)
show me the ones that say kill rogue first
What? Cause arena-junkie is the be all end all source for every strategy in the game? If the other team knows your rogue can be 4 shot, you damn well better believe it's going to happen.
I still fail to see where you are getting your information from. You've yet to provide even the smallest inkling of tangable evidence to support your claims that AP is better than AGI.
I'm pretty sure I stated, and I quote, "once you start seeing the same faces again and again (probably around 1700 or so), socketing for pure dps is stupid. You'll be singled out and gibbed before your teammates have a chance to do anything about it." In other words, once you're at the point where you're facing the same 5-10 teams over and over again, and they realize your rogue has almost no mitigation, they're going to come hunting you down because they know they can 4 shot you and get you out of the picture (ie. they can kill you faster than the healer can heal, so why bother trying to kill the high-mitigation healer and let the rogue beat your team up when you can just blow the rogue away first and gang up on the healer).
The two "random" armories were chosen because they were the same spec, with nearly identical gear, the only difference is the gemming, and quite frankly 30 ap is well worth giving up for 3.5% more crit and 5% dodge. 30 ap isn't a big change in your damage, 5% dodge is a big change in your mitigation, and yes more crit is a good thing. Just because resilience makes it LESS viable, does not mean it's completely useless.
Also, for the record, hemo is normalized now, thus having a massive AP pool no longer has a huge effect on the damage (this was the main reason for AP stacking in the first place).
Oh and lets not forget sinister calling while we're at it, which doesn't do jack &*!@ for ap, but gives you an extra 15% ap from agi.
So lets see here, your pve specs were wrong (other post), your pve information was way off, you've offered absolutely no backing to your claims at all, and I'm expected to sit back and go "oh sorry you're right and I'm an idiot" when I've backed up every single claim I've made with evidence? No, I don't think so.
Feel free to continue arguing, but I'm done at this point.
edit:
btw you suggest 400 resil is when we have enough resil =/
for the record the accepted surivability for rogues is 10k hp and 300 resil
and about the dodge thing you had 2 random armorys listed and you suggested that one was better than the other b/c of the 5% more dodge
"accepted surviability"? Accepted by whom? Last time I checked there wasn't a committee of rogues deciding this stuff, and I'm fairly certain it's up to the individual rogue to decide if they've gotten to a point where they don't feel squishy anymore. I
suggested
400 because 400 resil provides a -20% crit damage reduction (and thus a -80% damage reduction for cheat death), which is probably a rather 'safe' amount (ie. high enough to let you live long enough to get away/healed without crippling your damage too much).
Post by
105944
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
105944
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
KidB
/popcorn
Post by
fenom
wow that must be the biggest wall of text of all time, thanks to you two I will now be even more torn when gemmimg for PvP haha
Post by
105944
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
105944
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
kicklucky
There is absolutely no way that I read everything thus far, but I wanted to point out a coupe things.
AGI Rogue:
http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Malfurion&n=Lycra
AP Rogue:
http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Malfurion&n=Anthraxx
Yes, their attack power is the same, and I sure would hope so since the one is rocking PvE Gear with the +agi gems in it. However, I would still favor the +AP Rogue regardless of +Dodge, since he is roughly 60 Resilience higher. Which brings me to my next point. The standard used to be 10K HP and 300 Res, until the Cheat Death change, which now requires you to maintain 440 Res in order to proc the same as it did pre- nerf. Regardless, I still would not gem for +Resilience, as the PvP set with the offset pieces and +15 Res to chest is sufficient.
Oh and...
/popcorn
THAT is one of the single funniest things I've read on a forum ever, almost as good as the Mall Ninja.
Post by
107997
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
107997
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Feanora
and pure ap scales much better than pure agi until aparently very end game PvE
once youve gotten you're req gems for the meta bonus every other gem socketed should be a red ap gem (ignoring socket bonuses) just like in PvE rogues should gem all yellow hit gems ignoring socket bonuses
Incorrect. Straight agility is always better than straight AP for PvE, regardless of gear level. And no half-decent raiding rogue will go for broke on stacking hit; just because hit in a vacuum has the highest EP doesn't mean ignoring your other stats will result in higher dps.
You won't stack hit through gearing necessarily, but you will gem for hit up to your cap, in some case ignorning non-dps increasing socket bonuses, if you want to get the best use of your stat itemization and best dps increases. This is, of course, unless you are sporting a mutilate build.
You are right about agility vs AP though. Blessing of Kings and Vitality apply at all levels of 10 man dungeons and raids.
You're not reading what I'm writing. Gemming for hit is different from purely stacking it on your gear. Anyone who ignores upgrades for the strict purpose of being and remaining hitcapped is an idiot.
Post by
107997
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
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