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Epics
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Post by
irharry
Epics are easy to get, not a prob. You know what though, the REALLY good stuff is not easy to get. Its not even hard to get - it's freaking damn near impossible. You can get badge loot, s1 and s2, crafted, and honor loot very easily. As good as it is though, it is NOT as good as the gear that can be obtained by top end raiding, and top end PVPíng.
If you want a full set of pvp gear, you have to actually be good at it. If you see someone running around in a S4 helm or shoulders they are very good at pvp.
If you see someone running around with Tier 5/6 whatever, same goes.
What im saying is that while yes, epics are easy to come by, the highly visible ones, and the truly good ones, are not. They're freaking hard, and finding a way to buy them without earning them is damn near as hard as earning them properly
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116684
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135116
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Post by
Sakkura
@ all the QQ'ers about PvP gear: If the gear is so good and so easy to get, then get it. Why whine about it? Go grind your honor and get some gear. Not everyone wants to run Kara. Not everyone wants to do 25-man raids. Not everyone wants to spend hours and hours sitting at the computer for one session hoping for a drop to get an upgrade.
Well one of the problems is that it short-circuits the PvE progression. Who in their right mind would want to do Gruul's Lair when you can get far better items with a 100% "drop rate" from honor? This means people who want to do PvE have to grind honor to get gear for the few PvE instances that people still actually go to - ZA, MH, BT and SWP. That's kinda sad.
Karazhan kind of falls outside this, because people go there for badges (which is also a part of the reason not to go Gruul etc., when the gear you get for badges is better than drops from even SSC/TK)
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156426
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135116
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Post by
Sakkura
I understand the "shorting of PvE progression" argument. Not everyone wants to raid though. You don't HAVE to grind honor to make it to T5, but it helps a lot. The badge-loot argument is not exactly valid. It takes a lot of badges to get full badge gear. It took me 2 months of heroics to save up for
http://www.wowhead.com/?item=33484
- I want the badge crossbow too, but I'm never going to see the inside of Kara. How is it unfair to give PvP/Casuals epics if they don't have the time/guild to do Kara?
I love PvP, for me it is the endgame - for a lot of people it is! Why shouldn't I be rewarded with decent gear to make sure I can survive in the BG's and in the Arena if that is where I spend 90% of my time? At least in my PvP gear I don't get one-shotted in heroics, that's good for everyone right?
@ Huln: You don't HAVE to PvP to PvE. It makes PvE easier, that is all. The stats on most of the PvP gear is not set up for PvE anyway. You'll be able to make it in PvE, but you won't be getting the most out of your class.
I can absolutely understand your side of the discussion too. PvP players should of course get good gear for their progression, just like PvE players do. I just think that as the seasons have progressed, gear balance has gotten skewed in many ways. It's not just about PvP vs. PvE, it's also about badge gear vs. instance drops.
The problem is not getting to tier 5 raids, because nobody does them anymore. People just do tier 4 content and heroics for badges, as well as picking up some PvP gear, and then jump straight to tier 6 instances. I think this is a problem, and I think it's really a shame for the game. SSC and TK are two well designed raid instances, so it is sad that players get almost excluded from doing them, albeit in a very different way than was the case with Naxxramas for example (and to a lesser extent, since many people had already raided SSC/TK before the seasons got really far and before the 2.3 and 2.4 badge gear came about).
When it comes to farming badges, it really doesn't take that long. The cloak you linked would take less than 3 karazhan clears to get, for example.
Anyway, my point of view is that I hope blizzard can fix these issues, and hopefully make PvP and PvE gear even more distinct, so that each impacts less on the state of the other. The olden days of Naxx geared people joining battlegrounds and just completely dominating any opposition were unfair. The current days of PvP players getting
Brutal Gladiator's Shield Wall
which is comparable if not better for PvE than
Bulwark of Azzinoth
are also unfair.
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135116
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169823
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Post by
Izichial
Heroic drops we're pointed out as flawed from the start, and even Blizzard admitted it was a bad idea to use pretty much the same loot tables for normal and heroic max level dungeons. Never did anything about it, though, and I guess that's where all this started, only became more apparent as the seasons came and went and brought better gear. The uneven progression of early TBC PvE endgame was not really noticable then because it was do or don't and no alternatives.
Post by
Sakkura
That's true izichial. Blizzard say they will make sure the heroic drops are better in WotLK. They are also apparently fidgeting with the badge system, so that there will be different levels of badges eg., and some of the badge gear might require rep. as well etc., so I'm hoping for a better system come WotLK. But those fixes won't prevent the eventual skewing of gear as the PvP seasons roll on. So I hope blizzard has a fix in mind for this too.
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Post by
DJThunder
Now when i was in lvl 60 -b4 getting into a good guild which raided mc,bwl.aq-i had blues and 1-2 epics and a furry built but!when ppl asked for a tank in any dungeon i could easily tank anything without any problem-and i was arms at tha time- nowadays ppl ask for full epic tanks with 490+ def 10+k hp etc etc and prot spec if u don't have those well in their opinion u can't tank anything...and thats whats angers me..just because some kid got into a guild that raids kara and maybe some other 25 man raids and got epics out of nowhere plus he got some heroic/pvp epics doesn't mean that he/she has the right to tell u that u need to be full epic to join the group-yeap that has happened a lot of times in my server-
well if you dont have gear that provides you those stats you shouldnt be looking for heroics but normal dungs to gear up. i would not dare heal someone without def cap (that´s quite must have) and below 10k and even then i will must be in really good mood to try out (at least 11k please)... anyway it´s easy to get those stats with proper socketing/chanting.
about the epix... ... the badge ones are great as it speeds gearing up new people in guilds by considerable ammount and thats perfect imo.. just as example few people from your guild (let´s say one of the key healers and tank) decide to stop playing/go somewhere else it will always be a major setback for your guild to get new MT top notch gear with badges the time required to do so drops around 50% so i see no problem here as bad player will not wear lot (if any) of them since you still need 100 of badges to get single piece of T6 quality gear (and in most of cases worse itemised piece). (and i love my mace anyway so yeh badge loot is <3 :)
for the pvp ones.. just consider this: I as resto druid have 2243 healing/229 unbuffed MP5 in pve gear when i switch to pvp gear (4/5 vengeful some honor items and bit of my normal gear) it get me: 319 resi/1847healing/158mp5 all the replaced items are same quality as the alternative... that´s nearly 400 healing and 71MP5 difference for same itemlevel gear (and as i said i dont even switch all the gear parts) while it can help while gearing up it´s quite impossible to pve with it as every single class i know of loose some important pve stat from it.¨
One last edit:
All i am saying is that b4 bc u had to work to get epics that includes pvp epics when u had to achieve field or grand marshal rank in order to get them but now any1 has epics and he thinks he is imba because he doesn;t understand tha EVERYONE has epics...
I really miss those times...cause back then ppl didn't get jugded by their gear but by their skill...
back then? preTBC gear imbalances were much bigger than at 70. just consider bloodfang rogue sneaking on poor blues/some random mc epics mage /giggle (tbh wtb but dont tell anybody) by giving everyone possibility to quickly get some gear to set the playing field evenier where it belongs - to pvp. so judging gear over skill happens uch less now. :)
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