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Level 70 and Thick Hide and Demoralizing Roar
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Post by
razzem
Since I'm almost level 50 now, I've been spending some time thinking and reading about talents.
One of the things that I've read in the Warrior's forum is that a level 70-73 boss cannot be affected by more than 2 points in Demoralizing Roar (or Shout) and I'm wondering why this is the case?
Also, I've seen warriors drop their talent points that they put into increasing their defense once they hit 490... is there any talent that Druids can drop after they hit 70 that they needed while leveling? I've seen a couple people post that they dropped Thick Hide once they hit 70, but it seems like regardless of level 70, you would still want armor.
Anyway, just looking at some more endgame stuff before I actually get there.
Thanks
Post by
974
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Post by
Robyn
Dropping thick hide can make sense, once you hit the armour cap and more armour gives no extra benefit.
Post by
pelf
Any tanking druid is going to want Thick Hide.
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=0ZxGGsfboezioVxIz
That's one of the tank builds I waffle to and from. The main differences being the presence or absence of: Natural Shapeshifter, Intensity, Primal Tenacity and Savage Fury.
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=0ZxGGsfboezioVx0z
That would be the minimum, I'd say. The 6 remaining points are the ones I shift around. Some tank builds do not feature Brutal Impact; but, I find it pretty great as an added way to interrupt or intercept mobs. The added duration gives healers more of a break and gives me more time to re-gain aggro if I lost it.
Post by
pelf
Dropping thick hide can make sense, once you hit the armour cap and more armour gives no extra benefit.
Yeah, Robyn. I wasn't thinking about that. In general, however, the armor cap is a fair distance away from level 50 :).
Post by
razzem
Thanks for the input. I do currently have Thick Hide; it's just interesting to think of where to put the points once the armor hits the cap w/o the talent at level 70.
I'm curious the builds you guys have posted do not put points into Feral Aggression (Demoralizing Roar), which seems like it would be excellent for tanking bosses. I've heard Protection warriors say that more than 2 points in Demoralizing shout does nothing against level 73 mobs, but there is no rationale that I've heard regarding that.
Here is the build that I was planning on going for a bear tank...
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=0zZghGsfboezioEx0z
It seems like for a tank that Imp MotW would be key, assuming you had no resto druids in your raid. Good resistences.
Also, Primal Tenacity and Primal instincts do not stack from a post that I read a while back (with regards to Fear effects from bosses). Maybe this has changed lately.
Also, I'm wondering why you guys selected Intensity in Resto. Do bear tanks use enrage that much? I almost never do because it lowers my armor.
Anyway, thanks for all the thoughts. It's hard knowing which talents stack, which don't, which ones will be useful still after defense and armor caps are hit, etc.
Anyhow, your thoughts on Demo Roar?
Link fixed
Post by
974
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Post by
razzem
Thanks for the feedback... those are all good points. I would invest points in both Imp MotW and Furor. I fixed the link above. I do need to look at Intensity again, after your comments. I havent gotten to the point of needing to bear tank trash mobs yet :P
Regarding Primal Tenacity and Primal Instinct: Some priest and druid friend did some testing... apparently, the rate of being feared didn't change with point in both versus one only. Can't find the link, but it was some awesome groundwork... feared the druid over 100 times, I think it was. I think it's in this Druid forum somewhere... but maybe it was in the priest one.
Post by
974
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Post by
razzem
Yeah, I'll look them up on the Dem. Roar/Shout. I'm pretty sure I read that here in the Warrior forum, but I really want to find it b/c it came up in another post too.
I understand your point about NG. I started a post on it a couple days ago because of how useful I have found it while leveling. I'm sure it's not the most amazing skill later in the game :P
Anyway, let me hunt down 2 posts that I really want to find-
1. Primal Tenacity and Primal Instinct not stacking and not worth having both.
2. Demoralizing Roar/Shout.
I'll post back, hopefully later tonight.
Good info, thanks again.
ps- I love these forums... they are so much more civil and discussion oriented than any others I've ever posted on. Thanks for making this a good environment, everyone!
Post by
pelf
To a few of your points, razzem:
Demoralizing Roar
Almost all situations I'm in where I need to eke out a tiny bit more mitigation, there's a warrior with the talented version of their version of this making mine useless. I don't bother because of that.
Improved Mark of the Wild
Kind of the same thing here: there's almost always a healing druid with Imp. MotW making the points wasted for me.
Intensity
Less armor initially generally means more rage. I haven't met a healer worth their snuff who had an actual problem with me losing 16% armor for 10 seconds. The extra 10 rage is actually quite palpable, as well. I can definitely tell I don't have it when I've dropped Intensity.
I know you answered these, too, physorg; but, I wanted to give my tilt on it as well. Most of the feedback I have comes from being in situations with other sources of these effects. The argument for not having them otherwise is that the "otherwise", in this case, is 5- or 10-mans where, arguably, you don't need them either simply due to the reduction in difficulty or to the increase in forgiving on the part of the trash and bosses.
I'm actually probably going to drop primal tenacity for natural shapeshifter next time I respec, due to the fact that feared targets no longer drop aggro.
This is a very good point. I knew about that change but for some reason didn't equate it to dropping that talent. Thanks for putting the words together for me :).
So, that considered, I'll probably switch my spec to this one once I log on today:
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=0ZxGGsfboezioVxIz
That is still leaving the points out of Savage Fury (sigh) in favor of putting the 3 I gained from dropping Primal Tenacity back into Natural Shapeshifter. Considering there actually are PvE reasons to shapeshift a lot (removing impairment effects for the most part), I've certainly actually noticed how much farking mana it costs to shift without it.
Plus ... even with a full tanking build, I can dream about some PvP viability, can't I? :\
EDIT:
How could I forget, as well, the need to shapeshift just to use a consumable through macros in 2.3! Yet another justification for Natural Shapeshifter.
Post by
974
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Post by
razzem
If your armor is high enough, couldn't you drop 2 points out of Thick Hide to gain Savage fury? Again, I'm not at that level, but if your gear is already taking your armor way up there, it does seem like a waste of points... and having that viability to switch to a better dps cat would be nice...
thanks all for sharing; I really am gaining a ton of insight.
Cheers,
PS
Post by
97034
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Post by
974
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Post by
Kaitain
Every last point of armor is useful up to the cap (36800 for level 70 bosses). The last 1k armor help you as much as the first 1k. So you will need to be decked out in full T4/T5 and then some before you get to that point.
You can hit the armor cap in 5/5 t4, and the cap is 32000 ish (don't know the exact value but i have 31950 or something and the tooltip says 74.98% reduction. It hits 75% with normal buffs)
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974
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95008
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93278
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