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Level 70 and Thick Hide and Demoralizing Roar
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Post by
razzem
Ahh, well, I spent last night manually looking through a significant number of druid threads to find the Priest-Druid fear test of PT and PI, but I can't find it. I really wish there was a way to search the forums and not just the database...
My understanding from what I read was that having both PT and PI did not increase the resistence rate to Fear... that is always stayed at 15%. Meaning that you neither had a 30% chance, nor did you get a second 15% chance to resist.
Man, I really wish I could find that thread. I'm gonna keep looking; maybe it was in the priest thread since I also have a priest and could have been reading there.
Post by
pelf
I've been wanting Natural Shapshifter for so long, the new shifting fix is a huge boon to PvP ferals.
I like your spec and the cut of your jib. I have to talk myself out of Savage Fury.
Why thank you. I'd like to think I've thought it out a bit.
At that point you'd actually be better looking at replacing a high armor piece with a higher agility piece instead of dropping the talent. If you can get 1% of dodge because you're invested in thick hide that will benefit you more than any talent you could put those 3 points in, given the kind of content you would be tanking (BT).
Dead on. The talent allows you to
devalue
armor as a stat in the gear you choose and to acquire gear with more of its budget spent on other stats (such as, as physorg said, Agility). Agility is totally the shit for tanking druids. With our only mitigation options (naturally; not including absorption trinkets, etc.) being
health
,
armor
and
dodge
-- anything that lets us increase one and keep another the same is pretty nifty, I'd say.
While armor can cap out, more health is
always
useful. Agility does kind of cap out because if you have something like a 50% dodge rate your healers are going to hate you simply because damage to you is going to be too hard to predict. What if you dodge 5 times in a row and then get a 10k crushing blow followed by 10 non-dodged hits. Yeah.
I like this thread :).
Post by
974
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
razzem
At that point you'd actually be better looking at replacing a high armor piece with a higher agility piece instead of dropping the talent. If you can get 1% of dodge because you're invested in thick hide that will benefit you more than any talent you could put those 3 points in, given the kind of content you would be tanking (BT).
Dead on. The talent allows you to
devalue
armor as a stat in the gear you choose and to acquire gear with more of its budget spent on other stats (such as, as physorg said, Agility). Agility is totally the shit for tanking druids. With our only mitigation options (naturally; not including absorption trinkets, etc.) being
health
,
armor
and
dodge
-- anything that lets us increase one and keep another the same is pretty nifty, I'd say.
While armor can cap out, more health is
always
useful. I like this thread :).
So this generates a couple of thoughts for me:
1. Would 2 points in Thick Hide be enough to keep you overmaxed to the point where you could still devalue armor? I can see that maybe like your saying, 10% increase in armor would allow you to add gear with more STA, AGI, or STR instead of focusing so much on the armor stats.
2. If you overmax your armor, would that end up mitigating the loss of armor due to Enrage? I could see that being a huge plus... basically, having X over the Armor cap so that when you Enrage it still keeps you at the armor cap level? I guess that Enrage only applies to base armor, so maybe it would be a relatively small amount of armor loss anyway, so maybe you wouldn't even need Thick Hide maxed out to make up for it.
Anyway, good thoughts; Also, maybe I should retitle this thread something along the lines of "Level 70 feral talent analysis" or something along those lines... we're getting a lot of great talent analysis here.
Post by
974
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
InfernoMan
I'm actually probably going to drop primal tenacity for natural shapeshifter next time I respec, due to the fact that feared targets no longer drop aggro.
I can't argue with wanting 5/5 IMotW, but I can't deal with the loss of rage that intensity gives, my DPSers run full tilt with me around because I can generate enough aggro.
The first line I kind of disagree with due to Primal tenacity also reduces your chance to be stunned, which when stunned you aren't building threat allowing the DPS to possibly pull the mob off you (I know probably stating the obvious here), which to me is the key point of having it. Also the resistance to fear if you occasionally PVP is pretty good to have.
I do agree with your second point, nothing is better than starting a fight with 15+ rage to get that threat built up right off the bat, no worries about a boss being pulled off you at the start by some gung-ho DPS'r that thinks it's ok to start blasting away full bore. By the way my technique concerning Intensity is pop enrage, wait a few ticks and right click the debuff off, there by removing the armor reduction, then pull.
Post by
974
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
razzem
I do agree with your second point, nothing is better than starting a fight with 15+ rage to get that threat built up right off the bat, no worries about a boss being pulled off you at the start by some gung-ho DPS'r that thinks it's ok to start blasting away full bore. By the way my technique concerning Intensity is pop enrage, wait a few ticks and right click the debuff off, there by removing the armor reduction, then pull.
Concerning threat generation from the start, I am wondering if it is beneficial as a tank to try to generate threat from caster form, before bearform/furor and enrage. In the other thread on tanking, ppl have mentioned dropping moonfire, etc on mobs from the get go. From my experience duoing, I just have very little time to be able to get in all the feral things, let alone other abilities.
I'm just wondering what some of you level 70s do with regards to that; do you find that you have time or that is worth making time to start out with that?
Post by
974
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
pelf
Concerning threat generation from the start, I am wondering if it is beneficial as a tank to try to generate threat from caster form, before bearform/furor and enrage. In the other thread on tanking, ppl have mentioned dropping moonfire, etc on mobs from the get go. From my experience duoing, I just have very little time to be able to get in all the feral things, let alone other abilities.
I'm just wondering what some of you level 70s do with regards to that; do you find that you have time or that is worth making time to start out with that?
Check out this thread, raz:
http://www.wowhead.com/?forums&topic=2341
Too bad the discussion in these two threads isn't in the same thread. There's a lot of good speculation/information on how to tank before we get our TBC goodies.
Post by
InfernoMan
Concerning threat generation from the start, I am wondering if it is beneficial as a tank to try to generate threat from caster form, before bearform/furor and enrage. In the other thread on tanking, ppl have mentioned dropping moonfire, etc on mobs from the get go. From my experience duoing, I just have very little time to be able to get in all the feral things, let alone other abilities.
I'm just wondering what some of you level 70s do with regards to that; do you find that you have time or that is worth making time to start out with that?
Until you get lacerate at lvl 66, or if you are running with a group of DPS with questionable skills/lack of attention to pulling aggro (as psyorg mentioned), it might be a good idea to at least throw up regrowth or regen on yourself (lifebloom is good as well when you get it at 64) to start with prior to shifting to bear to pull if you don't have rage built up from a previous pull, as the healing ticks also provide a small bit of threat generation initially.
As far as using enrage prior to pulling, use your own judgment there. I prefer to use it prior to pulling, even when I have some rage built up from a previous pull since the more rage the better, I just make sure to click off the armor reduction prior to getting thwacked. Your healer will thank you :)
Also to piggy back off of Psyorg: Don't be afraid to toss someone from a group (or leave group if you aren't the group leader) that is being stupid about pulling aggro (note: mistakes do happen, but if it is consistent then thats being stupid), or just pulling groups when you or the healer aren't ready, especially after you ask them not to do it several times. DPS is pretty easily replaceable, but without a tank, there is no group.
Post by
razzem
Until you get lacerate at lvl 66, or if you are running with a group of DPS with questionable skills/lack of attention to pulling aggro (as psyorg mentioned), it might be a good idea to at least throw up regrowth or regen on yourself (lifebloom is good as well when you get it at 64) to start with prior to shifting to bear to pull if you don't have rage built up from a previous pull, as the healing ticks also provide a small bit of threat generation initially.
Good point. This begs the question, if I'm just popping one HoT, which would generate more threat? It'd be more probably that the faster casting one would be more desirable for less downtime, but if threat generation is the issue, maybe Regrowth would do better.
Also on this question of threat.... I've heard some different comments on Thorns before. Obviously don't cast it on your casters. One of the comments that I've heard about it is that when it is on, it generates threat, regardless of doing damage. Is this true? My thoughts on it were that it generates threat when it does damage. If this were the case, it wouldn't be a static threat value. Which also brings up the question of if you have a balance druid in your group, and they have pts in brambles, does the threat scale by 75%?
Not sure if any moonkins would know the answer to that, as it seems that brambles is deemed fairly horrible overall...
PS
Post by
razzem
Check out this thread, raz:
http://www.wowhead.com/?forums&topic=2341
Too bad the discussion in these two threads isn't in the same thread. There's a lot of good speculation/information on how to tank before we get our TBC goodies.
Ahh, thanks for that link! Sometimes I get to tunnel-visioned.
You know, it'd be awesome to start a stickied thread; one of you guys or a combo; dedicated to tanking tactics, talents, etc. Maybe one of you would combine all of these points and post it??? It would be a fantastic sticky!
Post by
pelf
Good point. This begs the question, if I'm just popping one HoT, which would generate more threat? It'd be more probably that the faster casting one would be more desirable for less downtime, but if threat generation is the issue, maybe Regrowth would do better.
Healing will only generate threat on mobs that have you on their threat table. So, the initial heal of Regrowth plus the first tick or so will be ignored; the initial tick or two of Rejuvenation will be ignored -- all depending on how quick you are in engaging the mob. I suppose if you're going to use HOTs to generate threat, pick the one that heals you the most. Either Rejuvenation minus a tick or two or the HOT component of Regrowth minus a tick or two.
You know, it'd be awesome to start a stickied thread; one of you guys or a combo; dedicated to tanking tactics, talents, etc. Maybe one of you would combine all of these points and post it??? It would be a fantastic sticky!
The programmer/databaser in me always hates to duplicate information. Everything I know, I've gotten from reading Wowwiki, Elitist Jerks forums and other various wikis and resources. If we put something together here, we'd just have to keep it updated or keep adding things to it; it would also be up to whoever wrote the post initially as opposed to the public-editability of a wiki.
A post, however, with useful Druid links including sections for Threat management or Aggro or whatever with Druid-specific notes made, I think I could stomach.
/sigh
If someone doesn't do it first, I might get to it...
Post by
Lemonade
http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=101923301&sid=1
Below are the two most viable specs when it comes to raid-level tanking and pvp in my opinon. Although when it comes to arena, it can be argued that
Nurturing Instinct
is much more useful than spending the two talents in something else.
Raid Tanking Spec
PvP Spec
Post by
pelf
Not sure I see why you took Feral Aggression. We've covered this in the thread already -- do you have a reason and/or argument against the points made about it, above?
Stun and Fear resist from Primal Tenacity has also been covered above.
Did you read the thread or did you just paste some specs without explaining anything about them?
Post by
razzem
I'll work on getting a thread started that will post links to some of these extremely useful threads; hopefully we can get it stickied.
It would be so much better if these forums had just a few categories to sub-group topics, lol
PS
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