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Healing to Tank: The Hybrid's Struggle
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Post by
65116
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Post by
126531
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Post by
Philmckraken
im sorry but as much as i do love prot pallies, they just arent as good as a warrior main tank.
That's your opinion. Nothing more.
Your rogue analogy is also broken; choosing a PvE spec instead of a PvP spec to raid is not the same as respecing to fit a completely different role.
Post by
Maradin
Let's face it... few guilds have a druid or paladin MT. They're more effective as hybrids, because they can heal/dps when you don't need three tanks for a fight. A prot warrior can't really do either. Equally, a prot warrior is the boss tank of choice for all but the most determined (and sometimes blind) guilds.
Therefore, as a paladin or druid, you're pigeon-holed into that role. Unfortunately, paladins are in the unenviable position of being the least effective boss tank and least effective healer. You can easily get into twenty-five man raids as a tank, but only if you're prepared to off-heal too. (And I have to say, you're pretty lucky if you're only ever tanking.) Only as a versatile class can a paladin get a regular raid spot (and let's be honest... sometimes if the raid needs the blessing).
The same as unfortunately true of a druid. Despite them being fairly high dps, a druid is almost never asked to join a raid for DPS alone. Therefore, they're invited into a guild to be a hybrid - normally tank/dps, more than tank/healer.
This is what goes with these classes. That's partly why they have rather overpowered hybrid specs.
Post by
65116
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Post by
30936
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Post by
Philmckraken
There is no "maintank" anymore, there's a tanking team these days. If you think by putting on some holy gear once in a while is as if your guild is trying to force you to spec holy, you're just paranoia. Like I said, there is no reason for a guild to try to make a prot pala holy, because a protection paladin is valuable for any raid. Not talking about kara here, but real raiding.
I'm not being paranoid by passing on healing gear, I'm simply being practical. I keep a lot of tanking gear, and a full ret set, so that limits the space I have for storing other items. As stated, I have no interest in a healing role, part-time or otherwise. Since I'm the best-geared (and possibly the most skilled) tank that our raid group has available, There's no reason to keep gear around for occasions that don't arise. If we only need one tank for a boss fight, I'm that guy. If raid progression absolutely depends on my collecting healing gear, than I'm not going to progress. Oh darn.
Post by
106896
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Post by
65116
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Post by
Philmckraken
Sure, if your ego is that big.
Don't be surprised your other tanks leave because they're pure trash tanks.
Here's the bigger picture again: tanking TEAM, with possible rotations, to keep all tanks happy.
I also said it's not something your progress depends on, collecting healing gear. It's just to give your healers some love, you're just too stubborn to see it.
Ego has nothing to do with it. We're not uber-leet raiders, just a group from a couple of guilds who wanted to run Kara. Originally, I was the OT, and my buddy was MT because he had more experience with raiding, but we wiped on Maiden during the first run, so the raid leader decided to swap us, we downed her, and I've been MT since. Now, I'll grant you, it might have had a lot to do with my being uncrushable, though he had a lot more in the way of health and armor.
If the time comes where he's got the stats and feels like trading places, then we will. I can tank the trash, he can tank the bosses, we both get loot and badges either way. Still doesn't mean I'm carrying healing gear around, unless someone wants to buy me a bunch of
http://www.wowhead.com/?item=38082
.
Post by
Celdhyrean
Bah, the bag space argument is not acceptable in my opinion. I'm a druid and i always have balance/heal/tanking gear with me. Sure, there's no room for anything else once i also take the raid consumables, but who cares ? If it allows me to do what helps the raid the most when required, then so much the better. I consider having 4 full bags of gear to be normal for an hybrid.
It doesn't mean that they'll be used often, but i've been able to use each of my offspec gearsets to the advantage of raids several times in BC, when missing a tank for trash in Karazhan or an OT for some bosses, or tanking SSC trash in balance spec (because dps wars and ferals that night had less armor/stamina than me, even if tanking is only my third priority gear...).
It works for you, and that's all fine and well, it's your game after all. It's also clerar that an MT will have less occasions to change roles.
But refusing to get some gear (if no mainspec wants it) is just refusing to give yourself more flexibility, and flexibility is always better.
Post by
Philmckraken
Bah, the bag space argument is not acceptable in my opinion. I'm a druid and i always have balance/heal/tanking gear with me. Sure, there's no room for anything else once i also take the raid consumables, but who cares ? If it allows me to do what helps the raid the most when required, then so much the better. I consider having 4 full bags of gear to be normal for an hybrid.
It doesn't mean that they'll be used often, but i've been able to use each of my offspec gearsets to the advantage of raids several times in BC, when missing a tank for trash in Karazhan or an OT for some bosses, or tanking SSC trash in balance spec (because dps wars and ferals that night had less armor/stamina than me, even if tanking is only my third priority gear...).
It works for you, and that's all fine and well, it's your game after all. It's also clerar that an MT will have less occasions to change roles.
But refusing to get some gear (if no mainspec wants it) is just refusing to give yourself more flexibility, and flexibility is always better.
Again, it's a matter of opinion. I respect yours (and everyone else's who keeps insisting that I need to save up all the healing gear I can), but between the stuff I keep for tanking raids, heroics, the pieces that I might need to rebalance my stats if I get a new piece of gear, a full ret set, mining/smithing mats, etc, I just don't have a lot of space left. I suppose I could dump the ret set and start saving healing gear, but I'd really rather not.
As far as "refusing" gear because no mainspec wants it, it's never been presented to me as a "pick it up because you'll be off-healing someday" option. I'll also point out that having someone DE it into a large prismatic shard or void crystal and then everyone rolling on it will arguably benefit the raid more than if I took the stuff and then never had occasion to use it.
Post by
Celdhyrean
To me gear drops are difficult to get (ie they must drop, and you won't be able to get them in 5 minutes if you suddenly find that you need them) whereas consummables (LPS for example) only cost gold which you can find everywhere.
Dumping ret would not be a good idea, you probably have a lot more use for it than you have for healing gear. mining and smithing mats on the other hand...
Post by
Sakkura
Again, it's a matter of opinion. I respect yours (and everyone else's who keeps insisting that I need to save up all the healing gear I can), but between the stuff I keep for tanking raids, heroics, the pieces that I might need to rebalance my stats if I get a new piece of gear, a full ret set, mining/smithing mats, etc, I just don't have a lot of space left. I suppose I could dump the ret set and start saving healing gear, but I'd really rather not.
As far as "refusing" gear because no mainspec wants it, it's never been presented to me as a "pick it up because you'll be off-healing someday" option. I'll also point out that having someone DE it into a large prismatic shard or void crystal and then everyone rolling on it will arguably benefit the raid more than if I took the stuff and then never had occasion to use it.
I don't know about your guild, but mine has half a guild bank tab full of voids and shards. I doubt we would care about a few more or less due to offspec loot.
You should easily have bag space for 3 tank sets, a DPS set and a healing set. I have the 3 tank set and DPS set with room to spare for a healing set (I just really don't need one since I'm a warrior). Or if anything, you can always just put it in the bank. If you lack bank space, make a bank alt and send everything BOE there.
Really, the bag space excuse just doesn't work.
Post by
116684
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Post by
Philmckraken
You should easily have bag space for 3 tank sets, a DPS set and a healing set. I have the 3 tank set and DPS set with room to spare for a healing set (I just really don't need one since I'm a warrior). Or if anything, you can always just put it in the bank. If you lack bank space, make a bank alt and send everything BOE there.
Really, the bag space excuse just doesn't work.
I'll rephrase: I
could
very easily free up enough bag/bank space to stock up on healing gear. I could carry it all around with me, if I wanted to. But, I don't. Simple as that.
Getting back to the original purpose of the thread, which is "playing a hybrid class can lead to a role you never wanted," it's interesting that the druids and paladins are always called upon to respec "for the good of the group." The people who have this mindset are often the ones who have a built-in excuse of "well, I'd carry a healing set, but I'm a warrior/rogue/hunter/mage/warlock so I can't." If your raid progression depended on you rerolling a healer, would you?
Post by
Sakkura
I'll rephrase: I
could
very easily free up enough bag/bank space to stock up on healing gear. I could carry it all around with me, if I wanted to. But, I don't. Simple as that.
Getting back to the original purpose of the thread, which is "playing a hybrid class can lead to a role you never wanted," it's interesting that the druids and paladins are always called upon to respec "for the good of the group." The people who have this mindset are often the ones who have a built-in excuse of "well, I'd carry a healing set, but I'm a warrior/rogue/hunter/mage/warlock so I can't." If your raid progression depended on you rerolling a healer, would you?
Rerolling to another class is something quite different than respeccing a character you already have. But now that you ask, I do have a shadowpriest which I have also picked up some healing gear for if that should be necessary.
You could easily provide extra flexibility to your raid group, but refuse to do so. That's selfish to some degree, but if your guild doesn't need the flexibility that often it's not a big deal.
Post by
justinc
Thats what happens with a hybrid class...if you really want to tank /reroll warrior.
Post by
Celdhyrean
Getting back to the original purpose of the thread, which is "playing a hybrid class can lead to a role you never wanted," it's interesting that the druids and paladins are always called upon to respec "for the good of the group." The people who have this mindset are often the ones who have a built-in excuse of "well, I'd carry a healing set, but I'm a warrior/rogue/hunter/mage/warlock so I can't." If your raid progression depended on you rerolling a healer, would you?I'm often called to respec by the raid leader (read "myself"), for the good of the raid. And thus i don't hesitate to call on others to respec too if that's what's required to be able to raid that night.
I even invested some 240 badges in healing gear to be able to perform correctly in BT, reaching 10k life without hurting my healing stats too much wasn't possible else. (that and there wasn't anything really interesting for me in my main spec, except all the epic gems)
Because cancelling a raid for lack of 1 role that i could accomplish with a simple respec is retarded towards 24 other people.
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