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Post by
zoomie
Maybe your dps sucks? My guild is in T6 content and your talking about kara? Let your pally tank a boss while your group is in black temple and mount hyjal gear and then talk about how your paladins threat.
As for warrior gear, this is what I have.
http://www.wowhead.com/?item=29068
http://www.wowhead.com/?item=28516
http://www.wowhead.com/?item=30127
/
http://www.wowhead.com/?item=29070
http://www.wowhead.com/?item=33522
http://www.wowhead.com/?item=32232
http://www.wowhead.com/?item=34009
http://www.wowhead.com/?item=34675
http://www.wowhead.com/?item=33504
<-- note this is NOT the shield block libram
http://www.wowhead.com/?item=28518
http://www.wowhead.com/?item=30034
http://www.wowhead.com/?item=33515
http://www.wowhead.com/?item=33191
http://www.wowhead.com/?item=29279
http://www.wowhead.com/?item=28675
http://www.wowhead.com/?item=34473
http://www.wowhead.com/?item=31858
Uncrushable, uncrittable, 423 spell damage unbuffed WITH the threat libram, and dps still pulls off of me even with weapon oil, spell damage food, and a pot or flask.
Yeah welcome to T6 content and your dps being GOOD!
Post by
xaratherus
Maybe your dps sucks? My guild is in T6 content and your talking about kara? Let your pally tank a boss while your group is in black temple and mount hyjal gear
Or maybe we actually have 2 folks who regularly bring in their alts who are geared for starting BT/Hyjal to help DPS (a SPriest and a Rogue), and the tank still didn't lose aggro?
Let's forget about me, then (and ignore the veiled insult about me being in Kara). You've got multiple people in this thread who have said that
they have not experienced this
. At least to me that says that there is something going on in your situation that is different from the experience of others.
It could be that you're not doing anything wrong. If your DPS is going full-bore and not watching their threat, then they're doing it wrong. Unless that aspect of the game changes drastically after Karazhan.
Back on the original derailed topic. Let's take a look at two scenarios:
Situation 1
Tank is uncrittable but has less than 102.4% avoidance, opting for additional spell damage for threat generation. Boss lands 2 crushing blows in a row and the tank dies; the boss then wipes the rest of the raid. This situation was in the control of the players - specifically the tank, because he (or she) had the ability to become uncrushable and didn't. The raid wipe is equal parts bad luck and fault on the tank's part for not being uncrushable.
Situation 2
Tank is uncrittable and uncrushable but has lower spell damage. Boss attempts to land 2 crushing blows in a row, but the tank avoids them because his avoidance is at 102.4%. The raid goes on. The DPS fails to watch their aggro and pulls the boss off the tank, killing several of the DPSers. The raid may or may not wipe at this point, but regardless
the death of the DPSers is wholly their own fault
. They had control over how much threat they generated - and decided that they'd rather do more pewpew and get their faces chewed off than help the tank do his job.
That's pretty self-explanatory to me. In the first situation, it's the tank's fault for not being uncrushable; in the second, it's the fault of the DPS for not monitoring their threat.
Post by
blademeld
Maybe your dps sucks? My guild is in T6 content and your talking about kara? Let your pally tank a boss while your group is in black temple and mount hyjal gear and then talk about how your paladins threat.
As for warrior gear, this is what I have.
http://www.wowhead.com/?item=29068
http://www.wowhead.com/?item=28516
http://www.wowhead.com/?item=30127
/
http://www.wowhead.com/?item=29070
http://www.wowhead.com/?item=33522
http://www.wowhead.com/?item=32232
http://www.wowhead.com/?item=34009
http://www.wowhead.com/?item=34675
http://www.wowhead.com/?item=33504
<-- note this is NOT the shield block libram
http://www.wowhead.com/?item=28518
http://www.wowhead.com/?item=30034
http://www.wowhead.com/?item=33515
http://www.wowhead.com/?item=33191
http://www.wowhead.com/?item=29279
http://www.wowhead.com/?item=28675
http://www.wowhead.com/?item=34473
http://www.wowhead.com/?item=31858
Uncrushable, uncrittable, 423 spell damage unbuffed WITH the threat libram, and dps still pulls off of me even with weapon oil, spell damage food, and a pot or flask.
Yeah welcome to T6 content and your dps being GOOD!
http://www.warcrafter.net/sandbox/76130
Crushable? Correct me if I used the wrong enchants/gems eh?
Post by
zoomie
Wrong about gems and way off.
And if you are crushable, you are not the main tank. Step aside and let the warrior do it until you get more gear.
EDIT: if you are good then you can actually tank some bosses crushable. I tanked nightbane crushable on accident once. I forgot to swap my healing libram for my shield block libram so I was 3% off and I got crushed a few times. But we did it. You can take some crushes if your good enough.
Post by
blademeld
Wrong about gems and way off.
And if you are crushable, you are not the main tank. Step aside and let the warrior do it until you get more gear.
EDIT: if you are good then you can actually tank some bosses crushable. I tanked nightbane crushable on accident once. I forgot to swap my healing libram for my shield block libram so I was 3% off and I got crushed a few times. But we did it. You can take some crushes if your good enough.
yea, you're not really correcting me on the gems/enchants there
and on the note of nightbane, if you noticed in combat, you could have switched out the librams, and you're kinda overgeared for kara, meaning that it's not completely on the matter of "if you're good"
Post by
116099
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Philmckraken
I forgot to swap my healing libram for my shield block libram so I was 3% off and I got crushed a few times. But we did it. You can take some crushes if your good enough.
If you have enough health, you can tank anything if you're crushable, but this isn't the druid forum.
Post by
zoomie
I was looking over all my gear, completely forgetting about my libram. I figured i miscalculated one of my recent upgrade and I left myself crushable. It was halfway between nightbane and curator I realized it was the libram.
And this was taken straight out of forums on the wow site.
"Just to clear things up for you:
In terms of avoidance, the ratings that contribute the most are:
Block rating > defense rating > dodge rating > parry rating
So when you're trying to reach uncrushability, the best rating you can get from gear is block rating, and the best rating you can get from gems is defense rating. Make sense?
Basically, those defense gems you'd have are certainly pushing you towards uncrushability, and you'll notice a drop in avoidance if you remove them.
"
Don't believe me? Heres the thread
http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=7116401259&sid=1
More proof that you guys are total idiots and don't know your head from your ass.
Post by
blademeld
Other than the fact you repeated yourself,
defense is better at achieving uncrush than dodge
, ofc, dodge give pure avoidance, so it's a matter of personal preference.
Lrn2read zoomie
Post by
Miyari
Zoomie, I don't care what kind of content you're in (though yeah, I'm going to say it, you're pretty undergeared for what you refer to as 'T6 content') - it doesn't give you any less of a reason to treat people around here with respect. This community is not built on name-calling and trolling, so I suggest you might want to try and properly back up your claims with constructive criticism and/or advice if you truly feel that some users in our community may be misinformed. This goes for everyone else, too.
Post by
xaratherus
Don't believe me? Heres the thread
http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=7116401259&sid=1
More proof that you guys are total idiots and don't know your head from your ass.
Uhh... more proof? You quote some random guy* from the WoW forums as definitive proof that you're right and we're wrong?
Now, had you quoted WoWWiki - which, you are correct, shows that for every 25 points Defense you gain an equivalent 3% increase to avoidance in total, so I bow to you to that end - or a Blizzard mod, then it would've shown that you know a semi-reliable source from a completely random, untested one.
Said random guy, when I looked at his Armory, is uh... wow. I wouldn't take advice from him, personally - he's carrying a 2-handed ret weapon, wearing a mix of plate and cloth healing gear, and is specced Prot.
Post by
blademeld
Said random guy, when I looked at his Armory, is uh... wow. I wouldn't take advice from him, personally - he's carrying a 2-handed ret weapon, wearing a mix of plate and cloth healing gear, and is specced Prot.
I don't wear cloth but I do that quite often myself :D
Post by
zoomie
I might be "undergeared" but thats because I haven't been lucky enough to get any of the pally tank drops. I had to bid on healing gear that nobody wants (which is stupid) because I knew I would have to offheal a lot of fights in BT. So my dkp is very low and I can't afford any of the T6 gear that is going out now from MH. As far as BT goes, we don't have the shadow resist gear for the entire raid to get into T6 drops from BT.
And while I am at it how would someone know I am undergeared? I am apparently the only one skilled enough (and apparently smart enough) to be in BT and MH in this forum. Nobody has been able to post an armory link showing their toon in T6 gear. But anyway thi sis how it is. Skill, not gear. Our backup prot pally did MH trash this week and he failed horribly, even though he had 3 pieces of T6 including the chestpiece and headpiece. In one 3 hour night they only killed 2 bosses because he sucked. The next night they only did the 3rd boss and he gave up on the 4th boss trash. He couldn't hack it. And if you are asking why he had T6 gear and nobody else does, he had an alt in our guild and then got kicked out of his main guild so he put his main in ours.
So like I said earlier, skill, not gear.
Post by
89501
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
65116
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
blademeld
Also, you just linked a bunch of items, I could link a full T6 set and claim it's mine.
And another thing, if you prioritize your offkit over your mainkit for spending DKP on, then you're just plain stupid.
I was laughing at that lol.
also, I don't post links for 3 reasons, one of which is that there are users like zoomie who don't refrain from personal attacks.
>.>
Post by
Philmckraken
I do have to agree somewhat with Zoomie in terms of not being able to hold at times. My guild has a warlock, Wildellia. His gear is a mix of badge, t4, t5 and of course za. But he will (with salv) push 1200+ tps. No he doesnt watch his threat very closely but frankly Id rather our tanks learn to hold against him than him learn to hold back.
Sometimes high high high dps classes will just burst their living daylights out and it becomes next to impossible with the best of gear to hold against them.
Raid Mechanics 101:
Tank: Builds threat, holds aggro, stays alive.
Healer: Heals tank (and others when needed)
DPS: Kills target,
making sure not to out-threat the tank and pull aggro.
If your warlock does not know how to watch his threat, it is not the tank's job to "learn to hold against him." If every DPSer in the raid did the same thing, you'd wipe on every pull, multiple times.
If a player can't understand the concept of waiting until the tank has a threat lead, they shouldn't be raiding. There isn't a class in the game that has to start out by doing a giant burst of threat damage, either.
Someone once told me that it is impossible for a DPSer to be overgeared for any dungeon or raid; they just have to know when to hold back, and when to open up.
Post by
zoomie
you guys are no fun
Post by
zoomie
the reason i have so many upgrades in TK and SSC is because the guild pally tank ditched because of family issues so i had to take over, 3 weeks before 2.4 came out. and i was only in kara/badge gear at that point. thats why i have so little gear from those places. i dont think my bracers need up graded since they are from the first boss in BT, and our warrior offtank who didnt bid high enough dkp is still ^&*!ed because they wont drop again for him. they dropped AGAIN but he wasnt there so a fury warrior got them. ohh well sucks to be him. i keep rubbing it in his face that its only a filler until i get the ones from shade of akama.
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