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Feral DPS help
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Post by
Indomitus
Hey everyone,
Played druid through all Pre BC content except naxx, fully clearing everything.. then when BC came out I went paladin. Now I've finally come back from the dark side and have leveled a druid to 70. Done lots of reading and searching about Feral DPS/Tanking. Have some questions about DPS though-
with 142 hit and 125 expertise (assuming bosses dodge 8%) allowing you to reach the highest possible crit chance of 50% should one hope to hit those caps before hitting their own crit cap? I.E. if I only have x amount of expertise and x amount of hit, should i be upgrading gear aiming to hit the highest possible crit chance I can with the current gear or aim at getting hit rating/expertise capped off before worrying about a crit rating.
Expertise has changed a lot since I've played a druid and never worried much about melee stats while playing the paladin... so to increase DPS if I'm not at my gear's crit cap is it even worth trying to get anything except more crit? Being hit capped was always a big deal before... but is it now less of one because druids need such insane crit chances?
Post by
144872
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Indomitus
If your going to dps, you don't need expertise. You attack from behind, therefore mobs cant block/parry.
Geting 142 hit should be your #1 priority.
mobs can still dodge from behind, players cant. expertise reduces their chance to dodge your attacks. read the sticky about cat dps at the top of this forum, good info in there.
Post by
144872
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Post by
Anarchy
Not a priority. Nor has it ever really been an issue.
If you can get expertise. great. If you dont have any. who cares...
Not a priority.
I'd make it a priority since raid bosses can dodge therefore lowering your dps.
Post by
Anarchy
If your going to dps, you don't need expertise. You attack from behind, therefore mobs cant block/parry.
Geting 142 hit should be your #1 priority.
mobs can still dodge from behind, players cant. expertise reduces their chance to dodge your attacks. read the sticky about cat dps at the top of this forum, good info in there.
Actually players can dodge from behind, my friends twink rogue level 10 has over 100% avoidance and dodges like hell even from behind.
Post by
Corveroth
Players cannot dodge attacks from attackers behind them. Period. NPCs, including bosses, can.
Feral DPS is not nearly so dependant on hit and expertise as, say, a rogue or enhancement shaman. Our miss chance is naturally lower (9%, opposed to, I believe, 29%), for starters. Additionally, we are less dependant on individual "white hits"- sampling some
WWS
reports
(filter it by fight) from my guild for reference, auto-attack accounts for 40% of a druid's DPS and 60% of a rogue's. That isn't to say that they are useless stats- if you miss or are dodged often, it can thrown off your attack rotation; a missed Mangle following your Rip forces you to Mangle again for the debuff instead of going back to the harder-hitting Shred.
Ultimately, you should never have to focus on either stat, because you'll find it along the way regardless. One of the best trinkets for feral DPS is the
Shard of Contempt
, and if you can pick it up, the
Belt of One-Hundred Deaths
is also an excellent piece. You will probably socket two
hit
gems
in order to activate the
meta gem
you will likely be using. Chances are,
some
pieces
of
gear
you
get
will have some hit rating. Focus primarily on stacking Agility- and make sure you keep the
two-piece T4 bonus
Post by
144872
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Post by
Corveroth
The reason you'll see a small DPS difference is for the reasons I outlined above- a feral's DPS is largely independant of individual attacks, much more so than with dual-wielding melee DPS. Having expertise is still helpful in keeping a regular attack sequence; depending on which numbers you choose to trust, bosses have a dodge chance generally estimated between five and eight percent.
Post by
144872
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Post by
Corveroth
Capping hit is no more valuable than capping expertise. Each affects all of your attacks equally at all levels. Whether your attack is missed or dodged, the end result is the same. Both stacks are equally effective on a per-point basis; 15.76 points of either increases the chance for your attacks to land by 1%.
Post by
145223
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144872
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Post by
109094
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Post by
109094
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Post by
Celdhyrean
Just 2 additions :
1° If you're crit capped and have room to improve on miss yes you will see that increase. If you already have normal hits on your attack table before adding the +hit however, your crit rate won't change. (and since a feral should only have a base chance to miss of 9%, you won't usually be crit capped)
2° Adding expertise works exactly the same way to improve your crit (reducing chance to be dodged and thus increasing chances for hits/crits)
Post by
144872
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109094
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Post by
144872
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Post by
Corveroth
Exactly, Parazell- you can remove miss and dodge from the table by gear and avoid parry by standing behind, but you can never drop glancing. The crit cap is 75/100%, assuming you cap hit
and
expertise-dodge. With parry off the table by appropriate positioning, your crit cap without either is 59.4/84.4%. Those numbers are
far
beyond the reach of anyone short of a Sunwell raider. For the sake of argument, I built a Rawr profile loaded up with the best DPS gear pre-Sunwell, gemmed Delicate Crimson Spinel everywhere (and picked crit-centric enchants and every group buff), and came up with 41.16% crit from agility and another 4.48% from crit rating, then add on 5% from LotP and 6% from Sharpened Claws- a total of 56.64% crit.
Which is
below
the crit cap for someone
without Hit or Expertise
, and that profile has 104 Hit and 69 Expertise. The crit cap is a consideration for the dual-wielding classes, who deal with an additional 24% miss limiting their chance to crit- no druid is ever going to deal with it, possibly excepting truly extreme cases such as fighting
Loatheb
.
In short, foleynuts, your facts are right but your conclusion is wrong. Yes, hit increases the crit cap- but it is not more valuable than expertise; it is equal in every way (for DPS). And the crit cap is not a consideration for the majority of druids, simply because they will not reach it- and those than can reach it will inevitably have gear that increases hit and/or expertise without ever focusing on it.
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