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The Carrot Has Been Removed, Thoughts On Flying. + Second Quarter Predictions?
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Post by
Silverhallow
I honestly think flying is something vital to this game but it wish it was harder to obtain. Make flying be available only after doing Full Draenor Explorer and Something else, something that actually takes 1 2 weeks of game to finish. Now that is an actual content spending. You are forced to do the content to get the "easy way".
My example: Flying should be obtained only after doing Loremaster and Explorer. By that time you are level 100 anyway. A meta achievement should be granted such as "
Ready for Draenor Flying!
" or something. By that time, what content am i even bothering to do? Daily? Grinding? No thank you, i dont need ground mount for that.
Now Blizzard says, NO FLYING! EVER! but to be honest they are punishing me, i finished all the outdoor content and i am staying in my garrison 24/7. Why am i the one to get punished for finishing the content?
There are many people that are like me, and more of those that don`t want flying maybe didn`t even finish the content. I did, i am bored. Give them the obligation to finish the content to fly, and see, if they will not say that my opinion is a good one.
Post by
Surveysays
Claiming that no flying makes exploring more fun somehow is lazy design. The best implementation we've seen in my opinion is what we had in BC and Wrath; restrict flying during leveling and add it back in at max level (I was even on-board with their original statement that flying would be delayed in WoD until a later patch due to the nature of treasures).
They know how to design around flying, they just choose not to these days.
One of the best parts about leveling and exploring in BC was seeing all the distant, inaccessible quest hubs which would become unlocked after you could fly. Running along the edge of the world and imagining what you might find when you could finally fly to all those islands floating in space. Looking up a mountain and seeing monsters and NPC's without knowing who or why they were there.
Another good example of how to design around flying was Icecrown in Wrath. Imagine if there was no flying and you had to run on a ground mount from Dalaran to ICC; you would never make it the way the zone was designed. Would it have been more fun if they had dumbed it down to make sure it was trivially easy to run through so everyone could get to the raid without flying?
Flying over areas filled with elite mobs fits the story as Icecrown itself lets us know based on the difficulty of the mobs inhabiting it that this was the home of the Lich King and he was way more powerful than us. But as the expansion progressed and we became more powerful we slowly began to encroach in to his realm and make progress towards raiding ICC. Looking back now the whole build up was brilliantly designed.
Flying made Icecrown
more
interesting because it allowed the designers to actually create a dangerous, max level area again (throwback to Vanilla). We could see it below us but knew that these areas were not meant to be soloed and that made it all the more fun to explore them and unlock any secrets they may hold.
If you don't want players trivializing content with flying, don't remove flying... just offer more content which cannot be bypassed by flying. How about an underground city, more indoor strongholds, caves, underwater areas, instances, or more group content?
Reaching max level and attaining the ability to fly use to be a right of passage for any player who wanted to participate in this type of content. Nowadays there is nothing out of reach, nothing to strive for. Everything is laid at your feet inside your garrison.
Post by
skumbananer
Why is Blizz so final in their rhetoric?: "-We are gonna remove flight from the game!". Is just painting themselves into a corner. Why not say something like: "-There will be no flying in WOD and not in 7.0, but beyond that its a fairly large chance that we will reconsider and perhaps add flight again".
My personal opinion is that i don´t miss flight, at all. I like being grounded.
Post by
ERJo
Just curious, if flying were put back in, would any of the anti-flyers quit the way at least some pro-flyers have cancelled their subs? If no one quits with flying in, and some quit with flying removed, isn't it a simple business decision to keep flying in?
Post by
Wowpixel
I just find it lazy world building. Rather than design around the habits of the players and expand on the things they have, they limit the player to keep them locked into a more and more linear game.
Not only does it feel more linear, it feels like being chained to the Earth itself.
The beauty of flight is we can soar, and that's a happy feeling. Running on land with high aggro radius mobs that daze players, is not a happy feeling at all. After the nth time it becomes more than annoying. They upped the mob aggro so high that when landing from the griffons the bulls will attack you as soon as you land (same goes for the Talbuks when traveling on the road).
Challenge isn't about avoiding being dazed.
Challenge isn't paying to do house chores.
Challenge isn't every 3 months changing routines to the point it because an exercise of stupidity.
Post by
rabican1
Flying does not impact WoD content because there IS NO WoD content outside the garrison. And calling what we are expected to do in the garrison content is a joke. What possible impact can allowing me to fly have? What am I going to do fly to my herb farm? I guess this is a good time to mention that I do not really need to harvest from my herb garden anymore as I pretty much buy all my herb mats from the trading post.
Oh I know, I just realized what content flying mounts impacts, those silly boxes of 15-30 garrison resources that the designers have stashed on top of platforms. Those ones that people are supposed to clumsily jump from platform (scaffolding) to platform to get. I have to get rid of 1-2K garrison resources every week. Why would I care to go get 30....
Getting around WoD is insanely easy and quick, and as I said other than getting to BRF, I have no reason to leave my garrison. I guess I should point out that I have gotten all the Highmaul gear on all my alts so I have no reason to go there. So at this point instead of flying to Skysea and then using my flying mount to get to BRF I have to use my ground mount. That really adds a lot to my game experience...
Not having flying mounts is just annoying at this point. It does not present a challenge to players; it does not add to the gaming experience, it is just an irritant.
There are toons/people out there that need to get their Apexis crystals, being able to fly would have no impact on that. Being able to fly would not change the dynamics of those quests in anyway. As an aside, the Apexis daily quests are one of the worst things WoW has ever done.
Post by
rabican1
My personal opinion is that i don´t miss flight, at all. I like being grounded.
Then don't use a flying mount.
Post by
yzq85
On Apexis dailies: it really depends on the location. On my rogues, I dread doing the Pillars of Fate, as the wolves can see through stealth (and are not marked as such) and do a lot of damage. However, I positively LOVE doing Iron Siegeworks. Nothing else quite appeals to the inner sadist in you like when you pick up a mine, go into a barracks full of sleeping soldiers, wake them up, and blow them up with the mine. My buddy likes Skettis as he knows how to handle the 5 min time limit where you have to turn in the rescued outcasts. I personally have never done Skettis as I dislike being on a timer.
As a rule, I prefer the dailies where you can have progression without killing mobs (or killing them easily using the area's mechanics). Dailies where heavy grinding of mobs are the main source of progression are indeed less enjoyable.
Post by
Spinkert
On one hand, I am not happy with the decision to remove flight (whilst making flying mounts still available); on the other hand there's very little outside the garrison that's interesting to me.
Thanks to the design of this xpac, as soon as the salvage yard is in place, my chars never have to leave the garrison again. Pretty sure that's not playing the way Blizzard intended, but they've enabled the game to be played that way. Draenor itself is not that interesting, so older content is still where I spend most of my time. And at least there I am free to go where I want, and not where the flight master is willing to take me.
Post by
lankybrit
On one hand, I am not happy with the decision to remove flight (whilst making flying mounts still available); on the other hand there's very little outside the garrison that's interesting to me.
Thanks to the design of this xpac, as soon as the salvage yard is in place, my chars never have to leave the garrison again. Pretty sure that's not playing the way Blizzard intended, but they've enabled the game to be played that way. Draenor itself is not that interesting, so older content is still where I spend most of my time. And at least there I am free to go where I want, and not where the flight master is willing to take me.
Yep, the Garrisons are locking a lot of people up.
But I would certainly give Archeology and Treasure Hunting and Node hunting a try if there was flying. People say it would make Treasure Hunting too easy. So what? One time GRs and a few achievements? Who really cares? I just don't even bother at all now, so it's wasted content.
Blizzard needs to get a clue, step up to the plate, swallow their pride, and announce flying in Draenor. Soon!
Post by
jarycu
But I would certainly give Archeology and Treasure Hunting and Node hunting a try if there was flying. People say it would make Treasure Hunting too easy. So what? One time GRs and a few achievements? Who really cares? I just don't even bother at all now, so it's wasted content.
Blizzard needs to get a clue, step up to the plate, swallow their pride, and announce flying in Draenor. Soon!
My main has had max herbalism since Cataclysm. As soon as she got the achieve for WOD max and I figured out that herbalism was useless in 6.0, she dropped it in favor of a second production profession.
My hunter has had max mining and LW since Cata...guess what? Now he's max ENG and LW (I kept LW because I hate wasting all of the animals if I have to kill them).
I got max arch and fishing back in MOP, so I did them just enough to get the WOD achieves. Arch, which is normally a hassle since you have to fly everywhere, now it's a bigger hassle because a) you can't fly, so you have to run to the FP, fly somewhere, then run to the zone, etc.; and b) you have to fight all of the 100 elites in Nagrand who are patrolling through the arch zone. 6-8 digs in 3 minutes? NO! 6-8 digs, kill 19 elites, aggro 17 lesser 100s, get a dig, do it again. 2 hours later I'd cleared the zone.
Back to Pandaria I go.
Post by
Wowpixel
In all this madness of pro and anti flight, this thread at least offers a laugh, still...
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/17604871581?page=1
Enjoy!
Post by
jarycu
In all this madness of pro and anti flight, this thread at least offers a laugh, still...
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/17604871581?page=1
Enjoy!
Since the Wowhead forums don't have a +1 / Like system, here's my +1 for that link!
#SoImmersedInWowheadIAmLateForWork
=)
Post by
Simonmon
(TL;DR at bottom)
I personally think we shouldn't bring this topic up on wowhead myself....It will just spawn vitriol and hatred, regardless of the merits for and against flight. It will not be very productive.
The people who come to wowhead are those actually searching for knowledge, and who take the time to read things. So if there is any place where there can actually be a rational discussion of this topic, it is here.
I would probably be branded and shunned as an anti-flyer if I were playing on a full account these days, but the truth is I'll just play the game the way the game is designed to be played: if there is flying, then I'll fly, if the developers say that the content is meant to be experienced from the ground, then I'll see what the game has in store that way. So I get a little ticked when I see someone in the forums try to divide players into different camps and claim that their own camp is suffering some sort of discriminatory disadvantage: "Well
you
can always just ride your ground mount anyway, but
we
can't fly now."
But having said that, I do understand that not being able to fly is a major, major, humongously big disappointment to a large chunk of the player population. I, at least, can read the writing on the wall.
I'm for giving Blizzard the benefit of the doubt in terms of game design; They wanted to keep people from simply bypassing content by flying over it -- immersion, they call it -- which, in my opinion, is a valid concern for a game designer. But from what I can gather reading the forums, I see two ways in which WoD falls short.
1. WoW already had a successful formula relating flying to immersion, which was not to allow flying until a character reaches max level, and then when any special high level zones are introduced ground those zones as well. Of course hind sight is always 20/20, and until WoD nobody ever praised that plan as a terrific model.
2. It seems Blizzard tried to do too much at cross purposes. At the same time that Blizzard does away with flying in order to immerse players, they also come out with garrisons, and from what I have read, everyone seems to be just sitting in their garrisons working on profession related quests, and the whole concept of immersion has been tossed out the window anyway. Taking a step further, while garrisons appear to be largely an enhancement for professions on one hand, on the other hand perks from having professions have been removed, and there is a limit to how much gear a player can even equip from their professions. So basically, there's even less incentive to play that aspect of the game at all, and the question, "Why bother?" comes up. It feels sort of like they're taking apart a wall they've built over the years, brick by brick from the bottom up.
Now, given all of this, if Blizzard came out with an announcement that, yes, the final updates to the expansion will be coming out, and that while they understand many people are disappointed that they cannot fly in Draenor, they still felt it best to stick to their original plan and not have flying during the Draenor expansion because the content was designed to be experienced from the ground, but they've put a lot of work into the new updates and they hope it's fun and exciting for everyone, and their players will give it a fair shot before passing judgment…etc, etc, I could understand that kind of announcement and be willing to give Blizzard the benefit of the doubt.
But given the climate of hostility from such a large portion of the player base over the whole flying issue, that Blizzard would announce that not only will there not be flying during WoD, but that there won't be flying during any future expansion from here on out for ever and ever and ever, simply strikes me as being incredibly, unbelievably, inexplicably, jaw-droppingly stupid.
Do they already know what the content of all future expansions is going to be? I seriously doubt it. The reasoning they presented for not flying in Draenor was based on player interaction with the content. So I simply cannot fathom why in the world anyone at Blizzard would commit the design of all future games to exclude flying when the content of those expansions probably hasn't even been plotted out on a sketch pad, unless there just happened to be one individual at Blizzard in an unfortunate position of power, who just really, really hated flying.
(TL; DR Forget Draenor, it's really dumb to announce there won't be flying in future expacs.)
Post by
Adamsm
Woot!
Post by
crsh1976
Woot!
Yeah, I just saw that too. I just about choked laughing.
Well, at least they're listening to (some of) their players, and frankly it's not a bad idea to make us work for it either - at least it'll give someone like me who's been bored to tears with garrisons something worth doing (currently running Cata raids solo, but that's about to get old fast).
Post by
jarycu
Woot!
This feels like that moment, at the end of the third Matrix movie, when the kid runs through Zion saying "we won! we won! the war's over, we won!"
Now there's going to be a hell of a lot of work to earn it, so I suggest everyone read Wowhead's article and start grinding now.
Post by
Silverhallow
I honestly think flying is something vital to this game but it wish it was harder to obtain. Make flying be available only after doing Full Draenor Explorer and Something else, something that actually takes 1 2 weeks of game to finish. Now that is an actual content spending. You are forced to do the content to get the "easy way".
My example: Flying should be obtained only after doing Loremaster and Explorer. By that time you are level 100 anyway. A meta achievement should be granted such as "
Ready for Draenor Flying!
" or something. By that time, what content am i even bothering to do? Daily? Grinding? No thank you, i dont need ground mount for that.
Now Blizzard says, NO FLYING! EVER! but to be honest they are punishing me, i finished all the outdoor content and i am staying in my garrison 24/7. Why am i the one to get punished for finishing the content?
There are many people that are like me, and more of those that don`t want flying maybe didn`t even finish the content. I did, i am bored. Give them the obligation to finish the content to fly, and see, if they will not say that my opinion is a good one.
Copy Pasta, man, wheres ma` money?
P.S. I love the new ideea (hee hee)
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