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10.2.5
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Alpha Cookie Cutters!
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Post by
91244
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Gnostik
I have been messing around with Destro PvP builds, and I may have come up with a cookie-cutter.
Destro PvP: 5/11/55
-The "Molten Core" talent makes me really want instant Corruption, while also wanting Soul Link for obvious reasons.
-The value of Torture will depend on the numbers, but I think it will almost surely be better than Backdraft.
-Backdraft just doesn't affect enough Destruction spells for it to beat out the other options.
-I've explained in other threads why I think Nether Protection is poor, and though it would be nice to have Soul Leech, I won't miss it much.
All in all it appears Destruction is getting a stright up boost to burst damage, in the form of increased crits and fire damage, and 11 points in Demonology will hopefully give us the defensive edge we need in PvP.
EDIT: Bah, I see now that Torture only works for two low-damage spells. Switching those to Backdraft and changing the link. If it ends up only affecting Immolate and SP that would be a pretty poor talent.
-Also, the 2 in Kindling Soul might actually make sense in Aftermath for a PvP build. Sorta depends on what Spirit values look like with the new gear.
Post by
asakawa
i was tinkering with this yesterday and (yawnsomely) the best pve builds i can see are just extended version of the best current builds.
50/0/21 looks very strong and there's no question about whether to take ruin instead of the 51 point talent here.
0/21/50 is a bit less convincing to me, i'm just not too sure about some of the destro talents. it's clear that they want destruction locks to be using both fire and shadow spells. it'll be interesting to have a go with this when it comes out.
Post by
Dunsinane
Okay, okay...
Not putting down an actual tree, here, but I'll make a few comments.
Affliction - 51 point talent is awful, outside of some of the scrums that can happen in battlegrounds or if you have a couple of really, really good pally tanks that you run with. Eradication is an interesting talent - the haste bonus may well be enough to bring affliction into late game raids. 50/0/21 looks about right for raiding, as Everlasting Affliction looks like a monster damage talent.
Demonology - They still haven't chucked Improved Enslave Demon or Master Conjuror. The deep talents to boost imp and succubus aren't likely to change much unless they completely redo our demons, and will likely wind up being passed on by most warlocks as a result. Metamorphosis can expect a nerf. Back to full health and mana for 45 seconds on a 5 minute timer? There are obviously going to be on the fly tweaks to this tree - a spirit reduction in the bottom of the tree and a spirit boost late make that clear. If the spirit ideas stay, we could be seeing a significant shift in how warlocks operate and gear - possibly the priest "spirit as spell damage" method?
Destruction - Aftermath is now a 2 point talent, and still just as worthless. Combining Impr Lash of Pain and Impr. Fire Bolt into a single talent doesn't make it any better without significant pet changes. Credit to Blizzard, though - they're trying to push the less used pets with some of these talents. Abilities like Molten Core, Torture and Decimate make me think they're trying to move us away from the shadow bolt, shadow bolt, shadow bolt, life tap, shadow bolt... raiding approach, which is a good thing. Raiding warlocks won't be able to put a paperweight on their mouse and go make a sandwich if they want to maximize dps, and we'll still be the "debuff" class.
Post by
Celdhyrean
The affliction 51 pointer combined with Haunt, while situational, can open up some possibilities i'd say. A lot depends on spell coefficients for Haunt and LoS/distance issues i guess.
Post by
91244
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Dunsinane
Why don't you address that on the official forums, Duns? I'm sure it would be appreciated, even despite the uproar of "LEAKED INFO AMGZ" from everyone.
Because I'm not in the alpha, I have no way of knowing if any of this is legit, and no way of testing any of the abilities to see if my cursory inspection and intuition is right. If they're seriously looking at restructuring the class (and its on the table, remember the reasoning behind the attempted Life Tap nerf), this would be the best time to do it.
I'm starting to think: what if they want to move away from small-sized arena matches? Fire mages are getting an AoE ability, and so are we. Maybe they mean to implement organized large-scale (8-15) player matches over arenas.
Siege-type play in the 24/7 PvP zone? That'd make the ability somewhat worthwhile. Warlocks as catapults, launching greek fire... and given some of the PvP boosts that corruption gets late in the tree, that might well be what they're thinking.
Anyway, I know it'll be changed, but on the off-chance it's not, people are going to be tunnled to spec that poor 51 pointer if they want to play Affliction in PvP. The upper tier talents are too good to not go deep into the tree, and the 51 pointer is a single extra point from where you already are, so pathetic as it is, it's not wasteful, especially considering the fact that you can't really go anywhere else with that point, because taking Soul Link puts Shadowburn pretty much off-limits without sacrificing a lot.
One thing I'll definitely say about upcoming cookie cutters - you won't see a lot of mid-level tri specs. There's some serious firepower late in the talent trees.
5/11/5x and 7/11/5x look like some serious direct firepower from both schools with decent survivability. Decimate just looks too nice at 51 to go for Demonic Sacrifice... especially given all the wasted points you'd have. Maybe that's how we'll get imps and succubi in. The destro warlocks will have to run SOMEthing... ;-)
Post by
asakawa
hmm, i'm surprised that you see decimate as an important pve talent. an instant cast soulfire every 3 mins sounds pretty nice and a boost, no mistake. but it was the ignoring immunity/absorption that made me see it as much more powerful in pvp. i can't see decimate adding more than 15% damage.
have i missed the point on that one?
Post by
118425
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Dunsinane
The point of Decimate in PvE isn't to do more than 15% damage on its own. The twenty points you don't spend on talents that won't help your dps in demonology has to make up 15% damage. After all, none of those talents do a single thing for your dps, with the exception of Demonic Aegis.
(Though come to think of it, with the changes to armor, Demonic Aegis may become more valuable)
11 points to Soul Link is 5%
Decimate allows me to cast Soul Fire in a single GCD which is worth a few percent
Instant Corruption and Improved Life Tap (I'm thinking of a 7/11/53 build) are worth a bit
And I still have 2 more points to spend in destro
And Blizzard has asked that site to take down the info, unsurprisingly...
Post by
asakawa
yeah i see what you're getting at though i'm still not entirely convinced. that 15% was worth the 21 points before and i'm not sure there's been enough changes in the lower ends of the trees to change that much.
also, soul link looks like it only shifts damage over to the pet now. it no longer adds to damage. i suppose this was bound to happen with the shift to 11 points.
as blizz persuades everyone to take down their information
this page
has the data-mined talent texts still. the last thing i noticed was ISB nerfed down to 15%
Post by
Gnostik
Couple thoughts:
-I'm sure Metamorphosis will be nerfed.
-I'm sure Atrocity will be changed.
-The deep Destruction talents look more PvP-oriented to me. I don't think they have raiding in mind at all, since min/maxing either fire or shadow will nullify half the new talents.
-I would go 50/0/21 in a heartbeat if Atrocity isn't substantially improved. Of course, I don't like Affliction so I'll never actually go that deep into the tree.
-I disagree that the talents improving Imp/Succubus are worthless. If nothing else these are great solo talents. In particular, the Love Struck talent seems to have no use other than soloing. (Outside of soloing, the only other time a Lock has a Succubus out and is getting hit is when you're Destruction in PvP, which means you couldn't get to this talent even if you wanted it.)
Post by
91244
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
91244
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Gnostik
Ok, there are a few Destruction buffs that I didn't see before.
Pyroclasm now also works with Conflagrate.
Shadowfury's Stun effect now lasts 3 seconds.
Wow. These changes are both huge, especially the buff to Pyroclasm. For a long time I've been wishing the tree had some sort of passive stun like the Blackout talent for priests. I would say I end up using Conflag an average of 3 times in a typical 1-on-1 fight. That's a 75% chance for
another
3 second stun outside of Shadowfury. (Not to mention the occasional Soul Fire +stun. Hmm...Decimate = instant Soul Fire + 3 second stun ... muahahaha.)
And then, the extra second on Shadowfury is surprisingly - perhaps sadly - pretty major. This spell is our trump card in PvP, the only thing that truly lets us get any sort of breathing room. The stun is not something that will generally be trinketed out of (and if they do I'll be glad they wasted it) so this 3 seconds is going to be a solid window in PvP.
Combined with all the crit-boosting talents, I'm excited for where they're going with Destruction. The only fear I have now is that HP pools and/or healing will scale so much more that the playstyle is still rendered ineffective. Hopefully that won't happen with a Destruction Lock's crit approaching 40%.
Post by
91244
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Zamfix
-The deep Destruction talents look more PvP-oriented to me. I don't think they have raiding in mind at all, since min/maxing either fire or shadow will nullify half the new talents.
The idea of min/maxing fire or shadow in the destro tree is based on the current status of the destro tree. Perhaps with its WotLK changes, a fire/shadow rotation will be viable instead of now where we spam shadowbolt or incinerate. I like the idea of changing the spec from being dependent on just 1 spell to being a more complex rotation of spells.
Post by
Alunora
This item has been remove by request of Blizzard. LOL :D
Post by
137716
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
91244
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
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