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Worried about Death Knights
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Post by
116189
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Post by
georgelopes
yeah I see what you men a plate wearer that a warior and a healer. well you can have 2 pallies one for each and ur good for heals and tank. but wariors are dps or tanking deaths i am assuming will be a warior. and I am assuming that they will also heal some way and be anouther pally but "Dark". so I think they better do sometin to givewariors a boost and esspecialy when Dk will be able to controll the dead.
Post by
Arideni
The only one to worry are DPS warriors. Death Knights will not be able to use shields, but they'll be dual wielding or using two-handers. They aren't likely going to be able to tank Heroics or raids.
Post by
Uricidea
So if it is obvious, or at least probable, that DPS warriors will be made obsolete by the new Death Knight shouldn't Blizz' adjust something to compensate? I am sure they spend allot of time balancing talents to keep things competitive. Why would they allow an entire population to be downgraded. DPS Warriors have a hard enough time as it is, if this is true they should just rename the class to "Meat-Shield" and get it over with.
I am not looking forward to being a Dark Night, nor that silly Bard class, I would strongly suggest to anyone at Blizzard that might be listening to consider Balance before the expansion goes live. My warrior 'Toon just hit 70, and I will be pretty cranky if after all this effort, and time I am completely relegated to Tanking. Even this aspect of the Warrior game has some strong competition from Pally's, and Druids. Where's the love for us guy/gals swinging 2-handers and charging into the thick of things?
Post by
Sakkura
The only one to worry are DPS warriors. Death Knights will not be able to use shields, but they'll be dual wielding or using two-handers.
They aren't likely going to be able to tank Heroics or raids
.
How do you arrive at that conclusion? Every statement by Blizzard indicates that they intend deathknights to be fully viable tanks, which I assume includes raiding and heroics both. They will presumably have abilities that make up for the lack of a shield, just like druids do today.
Post by
149543
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Post by
Aris
The only one to worry are DPS warriors. Death Knights will not be able to use shields, but they'll be dual wielding or using two-handers. They aren't likely going to be able to tank Heroics or raids.
They have a "protection" tree. They will in fact be a tanking class. They tank with a 2H. They will have talents to greatly increase parry. Effectively making them like bear tanks are now. Huge avoidance pools, but cannot become uncrushable. So they will be good trash tanks, but you'll still want a prot war or prot pally for boss's to push crushing blows off the table. There may be the occasional boss though that cant crush that they would do well with. But they wont be replacing warriors.
I have heard they will be more of a "spell damage tank". WIth talents and abilities that lend well to aoe tanking spell casters. I use the term "aoe" loosely, as i consider a bear tank able to "aoe tank" though they really can only tank 3 things at a time with any sort of effeciency.
The three talent trees they will have will be protection, dps, and necromancy (spell dmg dps). Now obviously they wont necissarily be named that, but thats what they will be for. Protection to tank, dps to well.. dps with a 2h weapon (sort of like MS wars and ret pallys), and necromancy will be talents to control and manipulate the dead, but basically spell damage dps.
Necromancy will probably be the PVP talent tree, whereas the 2h dps tree will be for PVE dps. But this last bit is mostly just speculation on my part.
Post by
149543
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Post by
132516
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Post by
Arideni
How do you arrive at that conclusion? Every statement by Blizzard indicates that they intend deathknights to be fully viable tanks, which I assume includes raiding and heroics both. They will presumably have abilities that make up for the lack of a shield, just like druids do today.
I assume no more than you. You'll have to forgive my lack of specificity -- I'm sure they will be able to tank many dungeons, but probably not the toughest encounters or raids (maybe even Heroics). I lean more towards what Aris has said.
The damage in Heroics alone is punishing. Undergeared paladins or druids are incapable of tanking Heroics, too. What makes anyone feel a Death Knight is going to be that "strong" to withstand a Heroic? They're going to be balanced equally among the other 9 existing classes. They aren't really going to be a "super" class like everyone thinks. Blizzard has said this already, no?
Post by
149543
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Post by
18907
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Post by
Sakkura
How do you arrive at that conclusion? Every statement by Blizzard indicates that they intend deathknights to be fully viable tanks, which I assume includes raiding and heroics both. They will presumably have abilities that make up for the lack of a shield, just like druids do today.
I assume no more than you. You'll have to forgive my lack of specificity -- I'm sure they will be able to tank many dungeons, but probably not the toughest encounters or raids (maybe even Heroics). I lean more towards what Aris has said.
The damage in Heroics alone is punishing. Undergeared paladins or druids are incapable of tanking Heroics, too. What makes anyone feel a Death Knight is going to be that "strong" to withstand a Heroic? They're going to be balanced equally among the other 9 existing classes. They aren't really going to be a "super" class like everyone thinks. Blizzard has said this already, no?
Well the ranking for heroic tanks at the moment is Paladin > Druid >> Warrior, so it would surprise me if they would be unable to tank heroics because of too much damage. Warriors arguably have the greatest ability to reduce damage taken overall, yet are the last choice for tanking heroics. Of course undergeared paladins and druids cant tank heroics, but the same goes for undergeared warriors.
They won't be "super", but that doesn't mean they will be as *!@#ty tanks as druids and paladins were during much of the pre-TBC time. Heck, remember right at the start of TBC when druids were simply superior raid (main) tanks than warriors?
In any case, nobody knows much for sure, so that does open the door to fears about the warrior spots in raids etc.
Post by
18907
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Post by
Arideni
That's just it, though -- I don't see a door to fears of obsoletion being opened. Of all the new DK how many do you actually think are going to
want
to tank? Problem avoided already.
I disagree with the entire "order for Heroics" completely. I'm actually almost offended by this!
And, surprisingly, I actually agree with slicklock & his assessment of the future. I'm rather glad he posted here as it brings up many great points. I can only hope he will continue to bring up such nice commentary in the future. Cheers!
Post by
anywherenotes
Well, I like to tank, I've tanked on warrior and paladin (now tanking), and comes death knight, I'm planning on re-rolling on a horde (currently alliance) server as death knight (so I don't have to level from 1), and most likely will end-up tanking.
Can we create death knight on any server? or only the server where we currently have some high-level toons, 'cause I'm not leveling from 1 no-more.
Post by
144835
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Post by
149543
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Post by
144835
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Post by
Sakkura
That's just it, though -- I don't see a door to fears of obsoletion being opened. Of all the new DK how many do you actually think are going to
want
to tank? Problem avoided already.
I disagree with the entire "order for Heroics" completely. I'm actually almost offended by this!
And, surprisingly, I actually agree with slicklock & his assessment of the future. I'm rather glad he posted here as it brings up many great points. I can only hope he will continue to bring up such nice commentary in the future. Cheers!
Well you're probably right that only a small portion of the people that go deathknight will want to tank. But at least a few will, and current tanks might want to reroll.
About the heroics, well you're entitled to your opinion I guess. But given that palatanks usually just say "CC? Lol, why?" and that an increasing number of posts in the LFG channel say "LF tank to <whatever>, paladin preferred", I am quite confident I am right about this.
There's no reason to be offended though, because I am not saying anything about your individual skill as a tank. Also, I am a warrior tank myself, so I am by no means saying warrior tanks are obsolete, or incapable of tanking heroics. I'm just saying that especially paladins are able to tank heroics with much more ease and speed (and less requirements with regard to party class composition) than warriors.
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