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Hunter 6.0 patch changes
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Post by
matheus314
Hmmm...Still no poison ammo nerf?
Is it really that OP? I'm not in the beta to confirm, but I'm really liking the SV-Multidotting build that is on the horizon...
Sweet. I was wondering what they'd do with Chimera Shot.
It was an elegant way to rework it. Multistrike is becoming a big deal for MM.
This is certainly unique but...my god...the range increase in particular opens a huge can of worms. On top of that, this looks like a mastery that will either be way too weak or way too strong due to how it works. This'll also likely be on a fight by fight basis but still. Damage dealing variance of the degree this mastery can easily cause is terrible.
There's a reason I was against the existence of Sniper Training before. While it existed back in a less mobile PvE setting (and was generally underwhelming), it was removed to make way for a more mobile Hunter that has flourished into what it is today. If there's one thing I would like to see in common between the specs - it's this mobile archery combat (even if it is a little broken, but there is notable counterplay in the form of slows, enemy mobility, etc and Hunter control could be pruned down further to compensate as well).
I'd rather they just rework Wild Quiver. I took a shot at it but it's not quite there yet.
Wild Quiver has been reworked: When you deal damage with an active shot (focus costing shots and Steady Shot/Shaft Shot), you have a 20% (+ X%) chance to fire an additional shot at a random enemy within 8 yards of the target (this is a smart attack and cannot break crowd control) for 50% autoshot Nature damage. Wild Quiver has a 33% activation chance on Multishot. In addition, the damage done by Piercing Shots is increased by 80% (+ Y%).
Shaft Shot: This ability gains one charge when
Wild Quiver
activates and two charges when Aimed Shot is used. Replaces Steady Shot while the Hunter still has charges. Can accumulate up to 5 charges. Deals a scaling amount of damage based on Haste, generates 14 Focus, and can activate Master Marksman (yes, my iteration of Marksmanship keeps Master Marksman and there's a reason why).
As always, your ideas are really cool. Just spam those forums with them! ;)
Post by
Interest
It seems like Multistrike is a bigger deal for Survival (why does this feel like deja vu). Also, if MM had a niche for dealing good damage to 2-4 targets, something hunters are known to be god-awful at compared to quite a few classes, that would be fantastic!
Also thanks. I'm...working on it.
Post by
matheus314
It seems like Multistrike is a bigger deal for Survival (why does this feel like deja vu). Also, if MM had a niche for dealing good damage to 2-4 targets, something hunters are known to be god-awful at compared to quite a few classes, that would be fantastic!
Also thanks. I'm...working on it.
Remember in Cata when SV was ridiculously good in cleaving AoE? I think it was around late Firelands, I was doing insane numbers when our DK tank was pulling more than he could in the beginning of that raid... good times... *-*
Post by
Interest
It seems like Multistrike is a bigger deal for Survival (why does this feel like deja vu). Also, if MM had a niche for dealing good damage to 2-4 targets, something hunters are known to be god-awful at compared to quite a few classes, that would be fantastic!
Also thanks. I'm...working on it.
Remember in Cata when SV was ridiculously good in cleaving AoE? I think it was around late Firelands, I was doing insane numbers when our DK tank was pulling more than he could in the beginning of that raid... good times... *-*
I don't actually recall any Hunter spec being particularly good at cleave fights since like....ever <_<
Post by
w3maniak
Well, I believe serpent spread was quite OP in early MoP.
Btw, latest build: small nerfs to arcane shot (114% to 100%), Aimed Shot (385% to 350%), Explosive shot (AP ratio 46% to 42%), nerf to serpent sting (225% to 175%), Enhanced basic Attacks BM perk (20% to 15% chance) and cobra strikes (15% for 2 charges -> 20% for one charge)
I believe MM will have decent value from Multistrike, due to using hard-hitting attacks. Multistrikes might not be that often, but will be noticeable (1/3 of aimed shot is still more than autoshot). And with the set bonus making Aimed crits return whooping 35 focus, we'll be able to bring serious pain during Rapid Fire/Careful Aim.
Post by
matheus314
nerfs...
*sigh*
Well... I think they just nerfed everybody last patch... =P
Post by
matheus314
Thrill of the Hunt
is being changed to scale the proc chance based on the focus spent.
Proc chance is changing to %. Also fixed to work on
Explosive Shot
.
Right now, Thrill of the Hunt has a 20% chance to proc. With these upcoming changes, it would look like this:
Aimed Shot = 30%
Multi-Shot and Kill Command = 24%
Chimaera Shot = 21%
Arcane Shot = 18%
Explosive Shot and Glaive Toss = 9%
Post by
Interest
Hmmm...Still no poison ammo nerf?
Is it really that OP? I'm not in the beta to confirm, but I'm really liking the SV-Multidotting build that is on the horizon...
Well it's more the numbers concern me. Consider that the other two poisons deal damage based on autoshot damage, yet the poison ammo damage is directly scaling with AP. The disparity may be larger assuming the munitions damage is based on MITIGATED autoshot damage, meaning Poison Ammo ignores armor, but the other two are effectively mitigated by it.
Post by
w3maniak
Thrill of the Hunt
is being changed to scale the proc chance based on the focus spent.
Proc chance is changing to %. Also fixed to work on
Explosive Shot
.
Right now, Thrill of the Hunt has a 20% chance to proc. With these upcoming changes, it would look like this:
Aimed Shot = 30%
Multi-Shot and Kill Command = 24%
Chimaera Shot = 21%
Arcane Shot = 18%
Explosive Shot and Glaive Toss = 9%
This looks like a good change. Questions I have: What about Powershot and Barrage? I can imagine the talent row as whole only proc this from primary target by chance scaled to cost, but Barrage? Scaled, and divided equally between each hit (meaning 1,125% per "tick"), or just 18% on first tick and forget the others?
Also, what about shots with reduced cost? Same as normal, or reduced in proportion? Would it be this way?
normal Arcane shot 18%
TotH Arcane 6%
normal Aimed 30%
TotH Aimed 18%
normal Multishot 24%
Toth multishot 12%
Bombardment multishot 9%
Bombardment TotH multishot 0%
Also, I'm quite curious if they finally manage to make MM hunter viable in AoE as that's where we're behind ever since BM got beast cleave and SV serpent spread.
Post by
Nulgar
I can imagine the talent row as whole only proc this from primary target by chance scaled to costI would imagine it's one proc per cast, the number of hits doesn't matter.
Post by
Interest
Also, I'm quite curious if they finally manage to make MM hunter viable in AoE as that's where we're behind ever since BM got beast cleave and SV serpent spread.
I was briefly thinking about making Multishot cause Piercing Shots ;o. That would be fun.
However, since one of my more recent iteration of Hunter changes involved removing Piercing Shots (to fall in line with Blizzard's change) I was thinking of doing more for Bombardment - in particular having it reduce the global cooldown caused by Multishot so the Hunter can chain it more, given it reduces Focus cost.
Post by
matheus314
Amazing news on the Hunting front! Straight from 'The Man':
Celestalon on Hunter Changes
Originally posted by Blizzard
Hey all. Please focus on continuing to give good feedback, not the style/amount of our responses to said feedback. We're just extremely busy, not ignoring or spiteing you.
Now then... Yes, the Marksmanship and Survival rotations are simpler than they were before. The goal is to have a simpler baseline rotation, and have meaningful choices that allow you to layer more depth onto that in talents, if you choose.
Hunters have a ton of talents which grant rotational or short CD abilities, to support this design. However, they were lacking in rotational depth. The gameplay of most of them boiled down to "use on cooldown". No need to think about preparing for when you're going to use it, or how it interacts with your rotation, etc. So, we're going to make some tweaks to try to add some rotational depth to several of the talent choices.
Barrage is being changed to make it more rotational, with Focus-pooling gameplay required to min/max its benefit. You'll want to pool 60 Focus in anticipation of it coming off cooldown.
Barrage
now has a 20sec CD (down from 30sec), costs 60 Focus (up from 30 Focus), and deals 100% additional damage.
A Murder of Crows had a cooldown-shortening effect that hardly mattered in practice; either the fight would likely be over within 1min if used on a low-healh boss, or you'd likely waste most of the damage of the crows if used on a low-health add. Instead, we're changing that mechanic, so that it's primarily useful on those low-health adds. You'll want to time it well to finish off low health targets, while still being as Focus-efficient as possible.
A Murder of Crows
has been changed. Its duration, cost, and cooldown have been reduced by 50%. It no longer has a shorter cooldown when used on low health targets. Instead, its cooldown is reset if the target dies.
The gameplay of Fervor and
Dire Beast
were extremely similar, so we opted to replace Fervor completely. It's rather late in the development process to be doing that, so went with something tried and true:
Steady Focus
. This iteration of Steady Focus purely increases Focus regeneration, and has a duration short enough to add depth.
Fervor
has been replaced with
Steady Focus
: Using
Cobra Shot
or
Steady Shot
twice in a row, or using
Focusing Shot
, increases your Focus Regeneration by 50% for 10 sec.
We think that these changes will allow Hunters of all types to customize their gameplay to their liking.
Post by
Interest
Barrage is being changed to make it more rotational, with Focus-pooling gameplay required to min/max its benefit. You'll want to pool 60 Focus in anticipation of it coming off cooldown.
Barrage now has a 20sec CD (down from 30sec), costs 60 Focus (up from 30 Focus), and deals 100% additional damage.
I actually found Barrage in its current state rather strong. I liked that Glaive Toss was effectively the single target choice and Barrage was effective against a lot of targets. A potential idea would be to either make Barrage very effective against 2+ targets or replace Powershot with something that does. Glaive Toss may need to be gimped a bit more in collateral damage to further emphasize this (it probably needs this in general).
I don't argue with a free buff though.
A Murder of Crows had a cooldown-shortening effect that hardly mattered in practice; either the fight would likely be over within 1min if used on a low-healh boss, or you'd likely waste most of the damage of the crows if used on a low-health add. Instead, we're changing that mechanic, so that it's primarily useful on those low-health adds. You'll want to time it well to finish off low health targets, while still being as Focus-efficient as possible.
A Murder of Crows has been changed. Its duration, cost, and cooldown have been reduced by 50%. It no longer has a shorter cooldown when used on low health targets. Instead, its cooldown is reset if the target dies.
This is something that should've happened the moment Murder of Crows came out, imo. When I wrote some suggestions to change up the talents, it was either something like this or causing Murder of Crows to jump to another target after the original target died. I strongly feel this skill has great potential for encounters with 2-4 targets or the like. However, the direction they take for focusing down smaller targets is interesting as well. I'm glad for the reset mechanic either way - it makes this skill way more usable during leveling and for solo play.
The gameplay of Fervor and Dire Beast were extremely similar, so we opted to replace Fervor completely. It's rather late in the development process to be doing that, so went with something tried and true: Steady Focus. This iteration of Steady Focus purely increases Focus regeneration, and has a duration short enough to add depth.
Sure. I'm okay with this. I mean...I personally don't like the design of Steady Focus too much, but I had more of a problem with it from a Marksmanship perspective and...
Fervor has been replaced with Steady Focus: Using Cobra Shot or Steady Shot twice in a row, or using Focusing Shot, increases your Focus Regeneration by 50% for 10 sec.
With the removal of the free haste, this is a solid replacement that slightly changes playstyle.
Post by
matheus314
And I never liked Fervor anyway... it felt just... too plain, you know?
Post by
matheus314
Other comment about Lock n' Load:
Originally Posted by Celestalon
Oh, completely forgot that another relevant change hasn’t made it into one of your builds yet. Apologies.
Lock and Load is returning to the previous version of it, and Multistrikes will simply do more damage for Survival instead.
It’s changing to… 20% chance on Black Arrow tick (not multistrikes, and guaranteed to get at least 1 proc per Black Arrow cast). Effect is to reset ExS’s cooldown, and cause the next two ExSs to cost no focus and trigger no cooldown.
So those LNL changes we saw the other day? Scrap it... =P
Post by
w3maniak
Also, I'm quite curious if they finally manage to make MM hunter viable in AoE as that's where we're behind ever since BM got beast cleave and SV serpent spread.
I was briefly thinking about making Multishot cause Piercing Shots ;o. That would be fun.
However, since one of my more recent iteration of Hunter changes involved removing Piercing Shots I was thinking of doing more for Bombardment - in particular having it reduce the global cooldown caused by Multishot so the Hunter can chain it more, given it reduces Focus cost.
Yeah, I'll miss peircing shots a lot. Bombardment buff will be very boring solution as it'll be still the same boring spam even with your idea of reduced GCD.
One idea I have: Hitting 4+ targets with Multishot reduces remaining CD on Chimera shot by 2 seconds and causes it to hit additional target, up to 5 targets.
That would make our AoE rotation a bit less boring than just steady and multishot being spammed.
Post by
Interest
That sounds like a reasonable change. It could transform Chimera Shot into Hydra Shot, dealing a mix of Fire, Nature, and Frost damage (one type per target). I don't know about reducing the cooldown on Chimera Shot by that much though - maybe it could be reduced by less or even reduce cooldown when the shot is used and successfully hits more targets than two. Also, from my own list of personal changes I would like to see:
Wild Quiver has been reworked: When you deal damage with an active shot (focus costing shots and Steady Shot/Focusing), you have a 20% (+ X%) chance to fire an additional shot at a random enemy within 8 yards of the target (this is a smart attack and cannot break crowd control - it can also hit the original target) for 50% autoshot Nature damage. Wild Quiver has a reduced chance of activation on shots that successfully damage multiple targets (50% chance if Chimera Shot or Glaive Toss hits at least two targets, 33% chance if Multishot or Barrage hits at least two targets, with Barrage only activating on the first wave of attacks, etc).
Shaft Shot: When Piercing Shot or Aimed Shot critically strikes or Wild Quiver activates, you gain one charge of Shaft Shot. One Shaft Shot charge is consumed to make the next Steady Shot instant cast and deal more damage based on Haste. If Focusing Shot is taken, two charges are required and consumed instead.
TL;DR version of this is the more you use Multishot or Chimera Shot, the more Shaft Shots you get, allowing you to rapidly regenerate Focus to pump out more damage, especially paired with your idea to have Chimera Shot hit more targets with each Multishot. It also allows for some decision making in terms of AoE usage because Multishot will generate more charges if it hits 4+ targets.
I'll add the Hydra Shot idea to the list and credit you.
Edit: Here you go!
The Chimaera Shot hitting two targets instead of healing is a great idea. It could reduce the cooldown by 1 second if it successfully damages a second target to give Marksmanship Hunter an edge on 2+ target fights and also award situational awareness where hitting a second target increases damage output. It also synergizes with the new Bombardment, as shown below:
(From
http://www.wowhead.com/forums&topic=233239.5&p=3718767#p3718718
):
Bombardment: When you use Multishot, your Multishot costs 25 less Focus and deals 60% more damage for 6 seconds. In addition, Multishots used while Bombardment is active cause your next Chimaera Shot to damage an additional target, up to a maximum of five total targets, and morphs Chimaera Shot into Hydra Shot, causing it to also deal Fire damage.
Post by
matheus314
Hunter changes for August 27:
(some of them had been already mentioned before)
Survival Changes
Black Arrow‘s
cooldown is reset if it’s dispelled. :)
Lock and Load
has been reverted to the previous version. It’s similar to the live version, but you will get at least one proc per Black Arrow, with chances for additional procs on each tick. It also no longer has a 10 second internal cooldown.
Survivalist
now increases multistrike
damage
by 20%. (Old: increases multistrike
chance
by 10%)
Beast Mastery
Cobra Strikes
now has a 20% chance to trigger (up from a 15% chance), but now only grants 1 charge each time it triggers (down from 2 charges).
Enhanced Basic Attacks
now has a 15% chance to reset the basic attack cooldown and make the next one free (down from 20%)
Talent Changes
We’ve changed the combat rotations of each Hunter specialization (primarily through Ability Pruning) with the goal of them being a platform to build upon with talents. To facilitate this, we’ve modified several talents to add additional rotational depth. Hunters had many talent options which added abilities to their rotation, but most of them had quite simple usage, with little interaction with your rotation or other abilities. Now, there should be more of a variety; still some simple talents, but also some talents that create a more engaging combat rotation.
Thrill of the Hunt
now has a 6% chance to trigger for every 10 focus spent. (Old: 20% flat chance). Here is what the proc chance works out to (assuming it counts all focus and not just 10% increments):
Aimed Shot: 30%
Arcane Shot: 18%
Multi-Shot: 24%
Kill Command: 24%
Chimaera Shot: 21%
Explosive Shot: 9%
Glaive Toss: 9%
Barrage: 36%
A Murder of Crows
has been changed. Its duration, cost, and cooldown have been reduced by 50%. It no longer has a shorter cooldown when used on low health targets. Instead, its cooldown is reset if the target dies.
Fervor
has been replaced with a new passive: Steady Focus:
Steady Focus increases Focus Regeneration by 50% for 10 seconds after using Cobra Shot or Steady Shot twice in a row, or after using Focusing Shot.
Barrage
now has a 20 second cooldown (down from 30 seconds), costs 60 Focus (up from 30 Focus), and its damage has been increased by 100%.
Wyvern Sting
now has a 1.5 sec cast time.
Post by
Interest
Still waiting for the so-called combat rotation changes.
Also, I'm theorizing some BM changes. Here's my MM changes after a lot of thinking.
THESE ARE NOT PART OF THE WARLORDS HUNTER CHANGES - THESE ARE JUST FAN IDEAS
:
Marksmanship:
Mastery rework:
Mastery: Wild Quiver has been been changed to Mastery: Razorheads. Mastery: Razorheads causes attacks modified by Shaft Shot to deal an additional 20% + X% damage over 3 seconds. In addition, when Shaft Shot is consumed, focus-costing shots deal an additional 12% + Y% damage.
Note: I do NOT agree with the existence of Sniper Training.
Addition of Shaft Shot (new proc!):
Shaft Shot: Shaft Shot charges are generated by using focus-costing shots. When Shaft Shot is consumed, it makes your next Steady or Focusing Shot instant cast, ignore armor, and deal bonus damage based on Haste. Steady Shots made instant by Shaft Shot consume one charge while Focusing Shots made instant consume two. Eight charges can be accumulated at a time.
Arcane Shot deals physical damage, but is unaffected by armor. Renamed to Piercing Shot. It has a 50% chance to generate a Shaft Shot charge. This chance is doubled if the attack critically strikes.
Aimed Shot always generates a Shaft Shot charge when used, with critical strikes generating two charges.
Chimaera Shot has a 50% chance to generate a Shaft Shot charge, with the chance being doubled if the ability critically strikes the primary target. Chimaera Shot also has a 25% chance to generate a Shaft Shot charge for each additional target it damages, with the chance being doubled if it critically strikes additional targets. This also applies to Glaive Toss and Powershot (placeholder).
Multishot has a 10% chance to generate a Shaft Shot charge for each target struck, with the chance being doubled if the ability critically strikes the target. A maximum of three Shaft Shot charges can be generated in this way. This also applies to Barrage.
Miscel Changes
Careful Aim changed: Now doubles the critical strike chance of Steady Shot, Focusing Shot, and Aimed Shot while the enemy has 80% or more health or Rapid Fire is active.
I also agree with the removal of Master Marksman. The design was terrible in terms of RNG reliance and the instant Aimed Shot proc was potentially underwhelming and essentially meant the ability had to be balanced around the proc.
I agree with the removal of Steady Focus from Marksmanship. Either is free a lot of free haste, resulting in lower haste stat weight and reliance on haste buff. Haste buff is potentially difficult to gain if encounter mechanics prevent consecutive Steady Shot usage.
I'm also okay with the removal of Piercing Shots (the passive effect).
I agree with MM Hunters getting +20 Focus, but I'd prefer it's a Major Glyph effect instead to allow availability to all specializations.
AoE
The Chimaera Shot hitting two targets instead of healing is a great idea. It could reduce the cooldown by 1 second if it successfully damages a second target to give Marksmanship Hunter an edge on 2+ target fights and also award situational awareness where hitting a second target increases damage output. It also synergizes with the new Bombardment, as shown below:
(From
http://www.wowhead.com/forums&topic=233239.5&p=3718767#p3718718
):
Bombardment: When you use Multishot, your Multishot costs 25 less Focus and deals 50% bonus damage for 6 seconds. In addition, Multishots used while Bombardment is active cause your next Chimaera Shot to damage an additional target, up to a maximum of five total targets, and morphs Chimaera Shot into Hydra Shot, causing it to also deal Fire damage.
Scope of changes
The idea of these changes is to re-add the concept of using two Focus dumps as Marksmanship, which sets Marksmanship apart from the other two specs. The addition of Shaft Shot adds variance in the sense that Steady Shot/Focusing Shot suddenly becomes a potent ability that deals significant damage to the point it may be worth using it over focus dumps so long as focus does not cap. The numerous changes also may help bring three of the secondary stats more into line (Mastery, Haste, Crit) with each other.
Post by
matheus314
Are you even posting all this ideas in the WoW forums?
I mean, this is all great, I'm really a fan of your hunter thoughts, but I'm not sure the devs will read it here, even more that this post is for 6.0 changes that the devs posted, so they actually know them and we may do not.
I don't want to sound picky, but if someone is looking for the changes they're doing with hunter classes and end up facing your ideas, they might get a bit mislead by what's happening in the beta.
=)
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