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Remove Dungeon and Raid Finder
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Post by
Spitzio
There are several reasons why I believe this should happen:
All people need to do is queue for a raid finder or a dungeon finder and sit back, go AFK, or just run around in circles and troll trade chat in the capital cities
Forces people to actually go out and explore and find where these raids and dungeons are located, and form a group to defeat dungeons like they actually mean something
If you don't raid then your just an adventurer and you can put uncommon and rare quality items to good use, unless your really lucky. Not everyone needs to have an entire set of epic gear otherwise it isn't "epic"
Just adds more excitement to the game and makes it feel like there is more to do other than being tied to queues, you can't get far or do any activities if it's just going to be interrupted by a queue
These are just a few reasons why this part of the game shouldn't exist. Granted you can still have fun with the game and it isn't that much of a game changer, but it puts a dent in people's motivation or need to do any but queue. Needs to go back to the way it was in The Burning Crusade when the world felt much larger and I was almost never in the capital cities. It would be like taking away a crutch from people, they may be upset about it at first, but it would more beneficial in the long run.
Post by
LordDralnu
Interesting thought but I think this would cause a lot of people to quit wow. I do see where you are attempting to make WOW a more complex game but I do believe a lot of the issues that would come from this option would persuade people to leave instead of stay or join.
Post by
Spitzio
WoW was probably more popular before it was dumbed down, but you may be right.
Post by
Adamsm
Reasons not to take away the LFD and LFR:
1. So we don't go back to the days of BC where people would bail after one boss was killed. Almost no one wanted to join a Heroic that was already in progress.
2. So we don't have to put up with a dead server where no one runs anything.
3. So that we can actually do a version of the raid on our time and when it's convenient to us, as it can be quite hard to find a raiding guild that raids regularly at 3am in the morning.
4. To gear at your own pace and not because someone else thinks you should.
5. To not have to spend almost an hour traveling from one continent to the other to run an instance, where you may or may not actually get a chance to run it...anyone who ran dungeons in Vanilla knows exactly what I'm talking about.
6 and most important: So that people realize that this game is for everyone, and those who want to do without the LFR/LFD tool are certainly welcome to find a group of friends and run the dungeons...though, Good freaking luck being able to run a scenario.
Post by
Spitzio
Those are good points, but there must be a way to wipe out both of these problems we're talking about. To be able to gear at your own pace, but also force people to actually have to work for it.
Post by
Izichial
All people need to do is queue for a raid finder or a dungeon finder and sit back, go AFK, or just run around in circles and troll trade chat in the capital cities
All people need to do to get to a dungeon is to get a flight to the fp closest to the dungeon or ask for a summon, go AFK, or just spin the camera around in circles and troll party / guild chat from anywhere.
Forces people to actually go out and explore and find where these raids and dungeons are located, and form a group to defeat dungeons like they actually mean something
For people who aren't into exploring it might be mildly interesting the first few times to get there. Eventually it just becomes a chore. How does the method of getting there detract from what the dungeon means to you?
If you don't raid then your just an adventurer and you can put uncommon and rare quality items to good use, unless your really lucky. Not everyone needs to have an entire set of epic gear otherwise it isn't "epic"
How does the method of getting there in any way decide what kind of equipment Blizzard will have dungeons dropping or the equipment quality distribution among the player population as a whole?
Just adds more excitement to the game and makes it feel like there is more to do other than being tied to queues, you can't get far or do any activities if it's just going to be interrupted by a queue
You speak for no one but yourself.
Might want to wipe some of that rose tint off your glasses. Pugging dungeons in vanilla / TBC was frustrating at best and getting everyone to the dungeon was one of the most annoying parts. Some people didn't remember where the entrance was, had a slow flying mount, realised after accepting the invite that he needed to do half a dozen things before he was ready to go (and only then started moving), people randomly went afk while others were getting there and many people simply could not be arsed getting to the dungeon by themselves and demanded a summon. I have never once, having played since closed vanilla beta, heard anyone describing getting to a dungeon as "exciting".
In the end it doesn't really matter what the arguments for or against are because too large a portion of the player base rely on dungeon / raid finder to provide them content and Blizzard wouldn't risk losing their subs.
Post by
Adamsm
Those are good points, but there must be a way to wipe out both of these problems we're talking about. To be able to gear at your own pace, but also force people to actually have to work for it.
It's called get a group of friends/good guild and there you go. Now you don't have to worry about what the other several million players are doing.
Post by
Monday
I'm struggling to see why this is a problem beyond: "WHAA Now these people have the same gear as me!"
Why is it bad for a video game to attract a wider audience, again?
Post by
Adamsm
That's the thing..I don't see a problem here. What I see is a community that needs to be better. People need to stop blaming the tools and realize that the problem is from them.
Every time I see these threads, it's always someone complaining about how the other people aren't doing things...well, then do something yourself about it. Make the effort to actually find a group so you don't have to worry about these things.
There's also the fact that while it was 'interesting' the first time to walk to the dungeon...the next 500? Not so much. Leave in the instance teleport, and leave in ways for people to find groups how they want to.
If someone is happier using trade, good on them. If someone wants to use the new OQflex raid addon, go ahead. If someone wants to use LFD, let them. What they do doesn't affect you, and thinking you have control over it all is just being silly. Might as well complain that it's raining the same day you choose to have a picnic.
Edit: That was in regards to a post that the OP had put up, not you Funden.
Post by
Spitzio
Thanks for the posts guys, you all made some good arguments I completely forgot about those aspects, and now see that it does more good than harm.
Post by
Monday
Edit: That was in regards to a post that the OP had put up, not you Funden.
Aye, I figured.
Post by
Spitzio
That's the thing..I don't see a problem here. What I see is a community that needs to be better. People need to stop blaming the tools and realize that the problem is from them.
Every time I see these threads, it's always someone complaining about how the other people aren't doing things...well, then do something yourself about it. Make the effort to actually find a group so you don't have to worry about these things.
If someone is happier using trade, good on them. If someone wants to use the new OQflex raid addon, go ahead. If someone wants to use LFD, let them. What they do doesn't affect you, and thinking you have control over it all is just being silly. Might as well complain that it's raining the same day you choose to have a picnic.
.
You speak for no one but yourself.
Might want to wipe some of that rose tint off your glasses. .
It's just a forum guys. No one is pretending to have control over anything, it's just an idea being posted for others to post their ideas about. You make guys strong arguments, but let your facts do the arguing and not your urge to rant your overpowering feelings about something that really doesn't matter all that much.
Post by
Monday
The problem is that very few people feel the way you do. Most of these tend to be players who feel that WoW was better when it was older (I disagree- to a point).
Post by
Adamsm
to rant your overpowering feelings about something that really doesn't matter all that much.There's some major irony there....
Post by
Spitzio
I am just starting a thread based on an argument that doesn't really complain about people or get personal with anyone, but an improvement that I believe would help people out, that's why I opened this thread. I totally agree with everything that's been said and believe, and now think that LFD and LFR are good, but at the same time reading your posts leave me with a cold sweat because your not just talking about an idea your talking about the person / people creating them. You can make people see that they're seeing things wrong without getting nasty is all I mean.
Post by
Monday
I think you might want to take a step back for a second. Tone is important when communicating between humans, and it can often be lost in translation to the internet. I doubt anyone here is actively trying to insult you. It's just that, without body language and tone, it can be hard to determine someone's exact intent.
Post by
Onoku
Reasons not to take away the LFD and LFR:
1. So we don't go back to the days of BC where people would bail after one boss was killed. Almost no one wanted to join a Heroic that was already in progress.
2. So we don't have to put up with a dead server where no one runs anything.
3. So that we can actually do a version of the raid on our time and when it's convenient to us, as it can be quite hard to find a raiding guild that raids regularly at 3am in the morning.
4. To gear at your own pace and not because someone else thinks you should.
5. To not have to spend almost an hour traveling from one continent to the other to run an instance, where you may or may not actually get a chance to run it...anyone who ran dungeons in Vanilla knows exactly what I'm talking about.
6 and most important: So that people realize that this game is for everyone, and those who want to do without the LFR/LFD tool are certainly welcome to find a group of friends and run the dungeons...though, Good freaking luck being able to run a scenario.
I agree on all parts. I had a hell of a time finding groups for anything before the finders. Since they were put in, the amount of dungeons I have been able to complete has increased 100 fold. It is great being able to complete quests while waiting for dungeons or BGs to queue instead of wasting all my time running around cities spamming the LFG chat.
Post by
LiquidBlue03
There are several reasons why I believe this should happen:
All people need to do is queue for a raid finder or a dungeon finder and sit back, go AFK, or just run around in circles and troll trade chat in the capital cities
Forces people to actually go out and explore and find where these raids and dungeons are located, and form a group to defeat dungeons like they actually mean something
If you don't raid then your just an adventurer and you can put uncommon and rare quality items to good use, unless your really lucky. Not everyone needs to have an entire set of epic gear otherwise it isn't "epic"
Just adds more excitement to the game and makes it feel like there is more to do other than being tied to queues, you can't get far or do any activities if it's just going to be interrupted by a queue
These are just a few reasons why this part of the game shouldn't exist. Granted you can still have fun with the game and it isn't that much of a game changer, but it puts a dent in people's motivation or need to do any but queue. Needs to go back to the way it was in The Burning Crusade when the world felt much larger and I was almost never in the capital cities. It would be like taking away a crutch from people, they may be upset about it at first, but it would more beneficial in the long run.
I definitely see where you are coming from.
LFD / LFR has changed up the way we play the game quite a bit. But, I am not quite sure that the removal of these tools will make things any better. Before these tools were implemented, it was incredibly frustrating to form groups in order to do group content.
However, I don't think the problems you are addressing comes from LFD/LFR tools alone. It has a lot to do with the difficulty of the game in general, and how easy it has become to acquire epic gear.
Personally, I'd like to see the return of the grind for epic gear, instead of getting them served on a silver platter.
EDIT: Typos.
Post by
rabican1
■All people need to do is queue for a raid finder or a dungeon finder and sit back, go AFK, or just run around in circles and troll trade chat in the capital cities
Why do you have the trade channel on? It is a sesspool and has been a sesspool since the game was creted and the fact that that channel is a sesspool is the only common feature accross all servers.
■Forces people to actually go out and explore and find where these raids and dungeons are located, and form a group to defeat dungeons like they actually mean something
So after you have found the dungeon what do you do for the other 250+ times you have to run it?
■If you don't raid then your just an adventurer and you can put uncommon and rare quality items to good use, unless your really lucky. Not everyone needs to have an entire set of epic gear otherwise it isn't "epic"
■Just adds more excitement to the game and makes it feel like there is more to do other than being tied to queues, you can't get far or do any activities if it's just going to be interrupted by a queue
You know the great part of this game is that you can go do all of that. Stop using LFR and LFG and go find the .00000000000001 % of the player population that agrees with you. I am not being facetious, I am being totally serious. Stop using LFR/LFG and enjoy.
I know you won't because I remember what WoW was like before LFR. Picture sitting in that same CRAPPY trade channel trying to form a group that has a healer, tank and three DPS. So after spending 30 minutes getting 4 of the 5 lined up one of them bails. So now you have to get more. Then picture after spending 30+ minutes building the group and travellig to the dungeon, one person drops after the first boss. So now you have to go BACK to the capital, try and find a person how has also spent 30 minutes trying to get a group but is now willing to start a run after the first boss and god help you if you have a bad group.
Oh wait are you about to play the, "but you should be in an organized guild and have people at your finger tips" card?
That has never existed in this game.
Post by
banokawow
If you are the type of player that wants better gear than the average player, form a raid and go get it. There is still a distinction between top level raiders and the LFR raiders. If you are raiding with 600 gear and I'm raiding with 502 gear, you are still going to be better geared than I am. We may have done the same dungeons and raids, but we just did them differently.
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