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Post by
Wowpixel
People are compelled to argue because I don't think the process of banning someone is as simple as one click.
People argue because they want too, and the duping ban emails earlier this year does prove that Blizzard bans in waves without regard who is affected. It was a culling to close otherwise dead accounts (hacked), but innocent players were in fact caught up in it.
Those ban letters are quite interesting in itself as it is bot like. For example, a couple weeks ago I got a account ban letter just like that duping one. The problem? That email doesn't belong to my account. It's a throw away email address I use for forums like this.
Apparently what Blizzard is shutting down are accounts via hacked/compromised/stolen emails. Because to get through that ban you have to provide details not even on the computer to track (something compromised accounts won't have, as the account doesn't even have that info listed).
Post by
1144074
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Pallyalt
I fully sympathize with you. This happened to me several years ago. My account was banned due to "Suspicious Activity". I never found out what this "suspicious activity" was, but as I was going through a financial crunch at the time and had already decided to cancel my subscription, it didn't bother me much, aside from the whole principle of being penalized under false pretenses.
About a year ago, my wife and I decided to start playing WOW again, so I registered a new account, buying all the expansions anew. One day I had an issue with my account and called customer service to remedy the problem. Not only was I able to remedy this login problem, but I was informed I could have all the characters from my previous banned account restored to my new account. The only thing that makes any sense is that my previous account was banned to force me to purchase another one at full price.
As a multi-million dollar enterprise, it's sad that Blizzard uses such tactics to generate extra money...
Post by
SoCalWoWGal
My account was banned due to "Suspicious Activity". I never found out what this "suspicious activity" was,... aside from the whole principle of being penalized under false pretenses. ...
I registered a new account, buying all the expansions anew. One day I had an issue with my account and called customer service to remedy the problem. Not only was I able to remedy this login problem, but I was informed I could have all the characters from my previous banned account restored to my new account. .
This situation is different from the OP of this thread. There are actually three levels of restricting access to an account:
My account is locked
We lock an account when we suspect there may be a threat to its security. Some locks can be removed by players with no assistance from Customer Support. When we think there may be a significant security risk to an account, though, we will require security verification through Customer Support. To unlock your account, follow the steps in your email.
My account is suspended
We suspend an account when we find the user has violated one of our in-game policies. Depending on the severity of the violation, suspensions can range in duration from three hours to 14 days, during which the account will not be available for play. When a suspension expires, access will be restored automatically.
My account is banned
We ban accounts when we find the user has repeatedly or grossly violated one of our in-game policies. A banned account is permanently closed and cannot be accessed for play. We will usually send a final warning message and apply a suspension to users in danger of an account ban. If this warning is ignored, we will permanently close the offending account.
Source:
Account Disabled, Banned, or Locked
You account was locked, not banned as in the case of the OP. The account may have had
Multiple Security Locks?
We've been receiving reports from players who have been experiencing repeated account locks due to
"suspicious activity"
and we wanted to provide what steps we could to help get you back in the game and/or access the WoW Remote app.
Generally, if our systems detect a change in your normal access pattern (i.e. how you connect to the game and services), it may temporarily lock the account and require you to reset your password. This password reset provides a simple verification that validates the play session and allows you to access the account and game.
The OP in this thread was actually "Banned" for violation of the
ToU
, and posted this thread to discuss the issue of his account receiving a permanent ban on these forums. Since your account was merely "locked" due to the "suspicious activity" once Blizzard was able to ascertain that you are in control of the account, they released the other characters on the account to you.
Post by
Jkpman
If the logic of your argument were even remotely true or legal system would adopt a similar practice any simply convict suspected criminals based on the accusation alone. .
This is not the legal system, you signed a contract with Blizzard and violated it.
There is no innocent until proven guilty with games, the same even goes for these forums, we don't tolerate racist, or sexist viewpoints. The laws of your country do no always apply to a virtual environment.
People are compelled to argue because I don't think the process of banning someone is as simple as one click.
I am sure bans happen to bots in waves, but I am equally sure there is a legitimate appeal procedure for anyone wrongfully banned.
Thank you for making my point... "I don't
think
the process of banning...", I used to assume the process was handled in a fair and sane manner as well, until I went through it. I do not for a second believe that Blizzard can look at an account, logs, RAM, Processes or whatever and accurately say without any doubt that "Yes this person had a BOT running in conjunction with our program" Because if they had the ability to Definitively identify BOT usage every time then they could simply wipe them all out from the game in one fell swoop and it would never be a problem again. Clearly that has not happened, so my guess is that the data is collected and then creatively interpreted by a human being to identify typical Botting patterns, and ultimately injects the possibility for human error and false positives into the mix. But truthfully no one knows what that process actually is since they refuse to share the top secret methods, it could just as easily be a guy in the back room with a magic 8 ball. All I know is that from where I am standing the method used is wrong 100% of the time as it is 0-2 in my case, and yet I have no recourse.
This is not a false positive.
They have passed this issue to more than one person to review the data.
Those people agreed you were guilty.
Bots work in a specific way they access certain parts of the memory and those are detectable if you are looking.
The reason they can be detected is because no other program EVER has a reason to access or alter the data, however this is also your downfall, because Blizzard can see that other programs did alter that data. (those would be the dreaded 3rd party programs you used to bot)
Again lol at your title, If you want to be taken seriously call Alex Jones. I'm going to play Wow with one botter less.
Post by
1144074
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Eccentrica
Wow! Are you still beating this dead horse? And you still think we care, rofl.(##RESPBREAK##)2060##DELIM##Sas148##DELIM##If you don't have anything constructive to say... don't say anything at all.
Post by
999161
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Wowpixel
If my in-game behavior is ever indistinguishable from that of a robot, I beg for Blizzard to put me out of my misery.
Have you been rep grinding on Timeless Isle of late?
o.0
Post by
MikadoGG
I actually had something very similar happen to me several months ago (I posted about it here). My account was also permanently banned, although later they reversed it and gave me a 72 hour suspension instead. I too still don't know what I did wrong, I have had my account since late BC but played since retail release. After all these years I get accused of using "bot/hack" and banned. Previously never had any disciplinary action taken against either of my two accounts. Never received any explanation, still have no idea what happened. But now when I log in sometimes I am almost always expecting to see that my account was banned again, and if that happens this time I won't appeal, I'm just that done with it.
People who have never been in this situation really have no idea what it is like to get accused of botting/hacking when you haven't done any such thing. So often you will get told to get over it, how this is all protecting the game for millions of players etc. Don't let it get it to you, enjoy your life, it's probably better off now anyway. But I totally understand your frustration, it simply sucks to be treated this way.
P.S. Just out of curiousity, OP, did you mine/herb a lot in the weeks preceding this ban? Because I have a strong suspicion that simply mining/herbing a lot (in a legitimate way) can result in false positives but again, I have no proof that is what happened to me so I'm just playing the guessing game since they never came out and flat out told me "We think you were using a gathering bot, so goodbye." They sent me cookie-cutter responses and never any straight-forward explanation of what it is I did wrong according to them. Anyway, since then I stopped reporting mining bots I see because I figure why should I spend my time and effort trying to keep the game environment fair and clean when they can simply ban me for not doing anything while actual bots can continue on their merry way ruining the game for legitimate players.
Edit: BTW, I'd say that the title detracts from your thread. I mean keep it if you honestly believe this is their way of making extra money, but I personally find it hard to believe. I think these cases are just errors in their system/human factor gone wrong, not a nefarious plot to make money. But they will not admit that the system is not mistake-proof because that would undermine their credibility and so some people like us will continue slipping through the cracks.
Post by
1144074
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Nulgar
I hate to do that, but we basically told you so.
Regarding Blizzard: they detected something, but to them, it rather looked like botting (which may or may not have indeed taken place) than a third party taking over your computer, so it is understandable they don't want to explain to a botter how they detected them - especially given the prior actions against probably the same shady usage of your account.
Post by
Eccentrica
You didn't IMPLY they were out to intentionally pooch customers, you OUTRIGHT SAID they were STEALING accounts to force customers to buy new ones. You even gave the thread that name and have refused to alter it. And you're still looking to Blizzard to overturn the ban.
Also, I don't see an apology anywhere to the forum posters who attempted to suggest to you that what has actually happened to you might in fact be the case, or an apology to the forum in general for essentially calling any one who didn't immediately jump to your side a mewling tone-deaf fanboy who can't think for themselves.
You receive points on only one thing: you at least had the brass to reveal the outcome instead of slinking away into the night.
Edit: Since Nulgar already said it, I can type what I originally wanted to. Told ya so.
Post by
1144074
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Monday
If Blizzard had responded with the same sort of professionalism in June when the account was first actioned none of this other shady stuff would likely have taken place.
I'm not sure I follow your logic. "If Blizzard had reopened my account immediately, then I wouldn't have had my credit card hacked."
As for the ones that insisted that I am the one reasonable for this and or defends Blizzards stupid reasoning for defending any and all information like its some sort of National Security information, I do not feel I owe an apology.
Why should Blizzard have shared the information with you? If you were a legitimate botter, it would have been a direct statement from Blizzard on how they caught you and what you need to change so you aren't caught in the future.
Again if a Bank is unafraid to reveal some of its methods in researching Electronic fraud concerning real money then why is Blizzard so afraid to offer the same customer support concerning an online game?
Because the bank knew that your information was stolen, whereas Blizzard didn't? Because the bank had access to all your financial records and transactions whereas Blizzard didn't? Because the information revealed by the bank won't help someone continue a credit card fraud scheme, whereas information revealed by Blizzard would?
Yet somehow my accounts security and the consequent hacking of that account is still somehow my responsibility to protect against.
It's ALWAYS your responsibility to keep it safe, just like it's your responsibility to keep your car and your house safe. It's not Blizzard's fault at all if you can't keep viruses off of your computer (which reminds me, I'd switch to a different antivirus besides AVG. This is yet another instance of AVG being inferior to other antivirus programs, with the exception of Norton).
Post by
spartanentropy
ohhh.....my... it has been such a long time since I have heard the word botting and w.o.w. in the same sentence. If blizzard actually gave you the Butt Hurting Perma. Ban Hammer, then you have done something seriously bad.
Post by
ElhonnaDS
For future reference with dealing with customer service in general, there are some things that might have made it easier for you to get a more helpful response with Blizzard, and with any company really.
1) The language you used in both this post and your response was pretty aggressive and accusatory, and so I would imagine that much of your correspondence with them was as well. You also said that you sent at least one sarcastic e-mail about not wanting to buy their products, to kind of needle them. As someone who has worked in customer service, I can tell you that this is the quickest way to for a customer to be written off. Customer service personnel who would normally be the types who go above and beyond for a customer will do the bare minimum for people who can't bother to be courteous. Customer service, when confronted with illogical claims and conspiracy theory type accusations will think they're dealing with a nut (not that you are, but there are a number of people who are off their rocker who customer service has to deal with on a regular basis) and that there's nothing they can do there but waste time because a conspiracy nut is never going to be convinced by logical arguments or appeased by reasonable resolutions.
You said that your response from your banks was better, but I imagine your initial inquiry was "I think someone committed fraud on my account," and not, "You people have no idea what you're talking about. I didn't make these charges. Clearly, you're ripping me off." If you were logical and non accusatory in your dealings, of course you got a better response.
2) When you made this thread, you had completely discounted the idea that Blizzard might have in fact detected something, and jumped straight to conspiracy, regardless of repeated logical and anecdotal arguments about why that makes no sense. They told you that they detected botting software both times. Had you taken that at face value, you would have been on notice immediately that your security was compromised and could have checked your accounts then. Your own response was "Yeah? Prove it," and when they explained that they don't disclose their detection techniques, you took no further actions to protect your information. It's not Blizzard's fault that you were so disbelieving of what they told you that you never acted on it, or at least thoroughly enough to find out what you now found out about your keylogger.
I do sympathize- you're probably going to have a heck of a time cleaning up your credit. But it's important for people to approach things like this rationally and take the steps themselves to thoroughly check their computer's safety rather than get confrontational without having done so. These things happen, but they get escalated when people don't keep a cool head, don't follow up themselves and see what caused the issue, etc.
A lot of people get stuck on the "customer is always right" track, and don't treat the customer service people like human beings, or think through what the company can and should do to help customers AND stay in business. A 5+ year customer has paid a maximum total of $900 in sub fees, and maybe $250-350 worth of initial game purchases. For a huge company, that's almost no money. The important thing for them to stay in business is to protect the enjoyment and integrity of the community as a whole, even if it is at the expense of individual subs. Botting is a big problem, and by not addressing it, or by giving the botting community constant insight into how they are getting caught in order to make a couple of people feel better that they were thoroughly investigated, does more damage than losing a few accounts that legitimately don't know that there was an infiltration on their PC but aren't willing to do a full investigation without being convinced that Blizzard knows what they are doing.
Post by
1144074
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
ElhonnaDS
If you would like another shot at getting the account back, I would recommend waiting until the police investigation is at the point where you have a police report about how your computer was accessed, or some other official document along those lines. Then call the customer service hotline, rather than e-mailing where they can just respond once with a cut and paste, and explain that you have proof that your computer was accessed and your IP cloned and it wasn't you, and see if they will be willing to look at the action again if you submit them a copy of the police report.
They still may not do it- they tend to take the stance that account security is user responsibility- but it's probably got a good shot.
Post by
lonewolfe31705
Keylogger and a trojan that attacked your WoW account, bank account, the bank sent out a forensic investigator to check your computer (by the way, if it was cyber crime, it becomes a Federal case, and a local PD would just contact them and they would come out), and there were "shady web dealings".
This story keeps getting wilder and wilder and I would love to see a copy of the police report if it were true. Until then, I am going to keep picturing a 7 year old trying to cover their mistake by layering lie on top of lie on top of lie.
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