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Organized Religion, the Bible and the Will of God
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Post by
432158
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
MyTie
To MyTie: Islam is not a religion of peace as much as it is a complete set of rules for life, not just a set of spiritual teachings, and therefore must also contain rules for combat.
Religion and combat should not be mixed.
Post by
Skreeran
To MyTie: Islam is not a religion of peace as much as it is a complete set of rules for life, not just a set of spiritual teachings, and therefore must also contain rules for combat.
Religion and combat should not be mixed.Sure, as a Westerner, that sounds best to us.
The thing is, Islam developed differently, and doesn't have a separate set of civil and religious laws.
Check this out.
Favorite video on the topic I've seen so far.
Post by
MyTie
Sure, as a Westerner, that sounds best to us.
LOL. "Sounds best"? Because I'm always one to repeat the talking points that sound the best, right? On the contrary, I think something through, and try to determine what is right or wrong. Well, mixing religion with war is NOT a good thing, and I couldn't care less what their culture has to do with it, or what that video shows. That's a bad policy. Period.
Post by
432158
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
240140
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
MrMojoRisin
Islam is not a religion of peace as much as it is a complete set of rules for life, not just a set of spiritual teachings, and therefore must also contain rules for combat.
Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and (Muhammad), nor acknowledge the religion of Truth,
These are not just rules of combat, they are rules set forth to instigate combat against anyone who is not willing to convert to Islam.
Why would you not want to know what God wants you to do and how He wants you to behave in a war?
I have no problem with God telling me how to behave in a war. I have a problem with a god that tells people to wage war against anyone that does not follow him.
But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you,
I see a very distinct difference between the two teachings there.
Post by
Adamsm
There is a explanation of the section you just quoted MrMojoRisin
; maybe want to read it over.
Post by
MyTie
Well, mixing religion with war is NOT a good thing, and I couldn't care less what their culture has to do with it, or what that video shows. That's a bad policy. Period.
No. Why would you not want to know what God wants you to do and how He wants you to behave in a war?
Christianity is not a political nor militaristic movement. If God advised in war, He would be for one side. It doesn't work like that, and we aren't to make war with non-Christians, so it wouldn't make any sense for God to advise in war.But what if god tells you you have to mix religion with war? You have to learn certain rules of combat? Surely it's not up to you to decide it's not a good thing if it's the word of god?
God is reflected in nature, and love. Your statements are incompatible for what God is, much as Islam is. This isn't a "fair" kind of thing. Muslims have a misunderstanding of the very nature of God.
I thought you guys would be jumping on the bandwagon about religion and war not mixing. I can't believe you guys are arguing for it, in the defense of Islam. Why?
Post by
240140
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
MyTie
I don't think it's fair for you to say that someone elses beliefs in god isn't right because it doesn't match yours.I don't think you understand what religion is.I do not think war and religion mix. I don't believe in god or religion and no one likes war. I just don't like how you phrase it like we're all supposed to agree that your vision of god is the only one. To me who doesn't believe in god, your vision makes no sense, but it is yours and I will let you have it, and I understand that it's not something you just made up, it's your actual faith. Just like their actual faith say that this is the one and only god and that what he says, goes. Why would anyone go against someone they worship and think is.. god.
You telling me that you don't like my beliefs because of your beliefs, which state that not liking someone else's beliefs because of my beliefs is wrong, is hypocritical.
I know that's a tongue twister, but I can't think of a better way of wording it. You think I'm wrong for thinking that I am right and other people are wrong. Do you live in a world where you don't have to apply the rules you make up to yourself?
In any case, I don't care if you think I'm wrong for saying that other people are wrong. Other people are wrong, in their understanding of God. I don't use my opinion for that, but an illustration of the world around us, of empathy, kindness, and love. If God is an artistic, the Islamic God couldn't have painted love. The Christian God could have. This is how I arrived at the conclusion that they are wrong and I am right.
Don't like it? Tough.
Post by
240140
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
MyTie
I do understand religion but you are saying that islam misunderstand their own god, and that makes no sense what so ever. You are acting under the impression that everyone agrees with you what god means, and if you do that, no discussion will ever go anywhere. I'm not telling you to change your mind about it, but you fail to realize that to a muslim something makes sense because they truly believe god said it. Just like to you things make sense because you think god said it. Wether it's true or not doesn't matter.
I am saying that God is one way, regardless of what anyone thinks. And some people are wrong about what God is. Muslims are those whom I believe are wrong. I'm not going to water that down to build bridges. I'll compromise with people, but I'm not going to abandon what I believe.
Being under the impression that no matter what you are wrong or right about an opinion/belief is going to make it impossible to have any kind of conversation with you.I believe I'm right. I believe in the Bible. Who I am, everything I am, is built on that understanding. I'm willing to discuss other's beliefs, but not being able to say "I think this is wrong", is kind of silly. Mixing war and religion is wrong. You yourself agreed with that. So, we kind of have the same reasoning, but you just want to tell me off that I don't understand better than anyone else what God is, or something, and I think I do. If that makes it just impossible for you to discuss anything with me, then so be it. And in the end, it's only a matter of opinion. There are no facts here.
You may want to consider a different thread, if this is the beginning and end of everything for you.
Post by
240140
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
MyTie
If you are not even willing to hear anyone elses beliefs or opinions, then why enter the discussion?
I wouldn't if this were the case, but you just made that up. Very creative.
"No, you are wrong."
That is all I ever see from you in these discussions. Actually, it's not even a discussion.
You think a proper conversation is listening to what someone sense and then go "wrong" after everything?
Actually, I gave a very good explanation for not only what I believe, but why I believe it, and why I believe that the beliefs of Islam are incorrect. I didn't just go "WRONG". Again, very creative. And to be honest it's very infuriating, which you should know since you claim to always be attacked by atheists who think you are wrong.
I would be infuriated at me too, if I were doing anything that you say I am doing. Yet, through all of your insistence that I am unwilling to discuss things with others, here I am, for YEARS, discussing other people's viewpoints, and the ins and outs of them. Sure, I think they are wrong, but guess what, that's why they are beliefs. You do it too, and you know you do it, and you admit you do it, then you get mad at me for doing it.
Post by
240140
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Skreeran
Christianity is not a political nor militaristic movement. If God advised in war, He would be for one side. It doesn't work like that, and we aren't to make war with non-Christians, so it wouldn't make any sense for God to advise in war.I'm going to assume you're just speaking post-Jesus? Because he was very involved in Old Testament battles.
As for all this other discussion, I understand that you believe you're right and that Muslims and myself are wrong. I think you're wrong. The thing is, the Muslims aren't going to go away, at least not for a long time, so instead of burning bridges and building walls between the Western World and the Islamic World, we should be trying to foster understanding and empathy between them.
We can't compromise on some things, but we can on others. If we don't, we're going to always be enemies.
Post by
Adamsm
I'm willing to discuss other's beliefs, but not being able to say "I think this is wrong", is kind of silly.Which is why the religious discussions founder and descend to the arguments they do: While some say they are willing to discuss others beliefs, and say that they are wrong, they are never too happy when the same thing is used in regards to their beliefs.
Post by
MyTie
I'm just saying I wish you'd leave it alone for once.Sorry to disappoint you.Christianity ispost-Jesus?Christ means "Messiah", which in turn means "savior". The Old Testament doesn't have anything to do with a savior figure, except through prophecy. To say "Christianity" of the Old Testament is to misunderstand what Christianity means.As for all this other discussion, I understand that you believe you're right and that Muslims and myself are wrong. I think you're wrong. The thing is, the Muslims aren't going to go away, at least not for a long time, so instead of burning bridges and building walls between the Western World and the Islamic World, we should be trying to foster understanding and empathy between them.
We can't compromise on some things, but we can on others. If we don't, we're going to always be enemies.I completely agree with this. I want to work with them, and compromise, and work together. However, none of that has to do with me not being able to say "I believe their religion is wrong".
Post by
Skreeran
Christ means "Messiah", which in turn means "savior". The Old Testament doesn't have anything to do with a savior figure, except through prophecy. To say "Christianity" of the Old Testament is to misunderstand what Christianity means.I know. In case it slipped your memory, I used to be one.
Christianity also assumes that everything in the Old Testament actually happened.
I completely agree with this. I want to work with them, and compromise, and work together. However, none of that has to do with me not being able to say "I believe their religion is wrong".And that's why I maintain that spreading disinformation, like MrMojo's assertion that killing non-Muslims is a fundamental tenant of Islam is only harmful.
As for whether or not religion and war should mix, all we're asking is that you try and think like a Muslim, if only for the purposes of being able to reason with them.
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