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Why is WoW declining? What made TBC so much better?
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Post by
751416
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
yukonjack
It isn't Blizzard's fault that people are anti-social.
My thoughts exactly, using the various group finder tools as a cop out for not being social is less than a week excuse.
Post by
jynxycat
Removal of so many RPG elements, no sense of accomplishment anymore, no reason to have goals.
There's so few things now that will keep players logging in besides their weekly laundry list of random loot.
Post by
yukonjack
Removal of so many RPG elements, no sense of accomplishment anymore, no reason to have goals.
There's so few things now that will keep players logging in besides their weekly laundry list of random loot.
If you choose to have such a defeatist attitude as the one you expressed in the statement I quoted, then yes, and why are you still playing anyways?
As for myself and my family and friends we find everything you listed as lacking in more abundance than ever. Attitude as with so many things in life is the key to success.
Post by
ElhonnaDS
I know it is the cliche response, but for the people who say there isn't a challenge in this game anymore, I wonder if any of them have actually cleared Heroic Raids, gotten gold medals in the challenge mode dungeons, gotten top Arena or Rated Battlegrounds ratings, etc. It seems to me that most people who complain about there being no challenges haven't completed any of the challenging content- how can you say content isn't challenging if you have never completed it?
In terms of the "no rewards for harder content" I am again really confused. The difference in the gear's level between Heroic Raiding and LFR is probably greater than the difference between LFR and regular heroics. It is hugely better in every way, but so many people who complain seem to think there is almost no difference. Because of the color of the text. I don't know why people get so hung up on the importance of a color. If I have an epic, and you have an epic, and yours is 40 I-levels above mine, and your gear lets you get to 200k sustained DPS and the maximum I could pull with mine is about half of that, how are they the same thing just because they didn't make your text a different color? It seems like such an illogical claim that all epics are created equal, and so if there are purples handed out for easy content, then your much harder to get, much better gear is only special if they make the words a new color.
In terms of RP experiences, MoP is the first expansion where they have extensively used fully voiced cutscenes to progress a significant portion of the questlines, and to me that seems to be adding more RP elements. Also, they added relationship meters with certain NPC's to indicate a growing friendship. Which RP elements were removed in the last couple of expacs?
Also, in comparison to the types of rewards handed out, what were players logging in to work for besides their loot in previous expansions, that they no longer are? Back then you were raiding or PvP-ing for gear- we still are. A lot of people worked towards mounts with rep grinds and low-chance-drops, and they keep adding mounts and haven't taken many out. People used to farm pets, and they added a whole lot more. And now they've added several other tiers of raiding, challenge mode heroics, they keep adding more content around secondary skills, they added Pet Battles and Ranked Battlegrounds.
It seems to me that they haven't taken much out of the game in terms of content- they just keep adding to it.
I think that the reason WoW loses subs is because it's an old game. People have gotten bored after X number of years of the same game, and are looking for something else. Older players give up gaming, or at least long hours of it, due to life changes and time constraints, and new players have a number of good games to chooses from, many with newer, better graphics, so they don't replace the leaving customers as fast. I understand the argument that there are games with better graphics and engines that are worth switching to. I understand the argument that it's gotten stale to do the same thing for so many years. I understand the argument that there has been a change in the social aspect of the game since LFR and CRZ were introduced, and that they don't like a more crowded, less personal play atmosphere. Those arguments I totally get.
But I don't understand the argument that the game isn't a challenge anymore, because it never seems to be from people actually play the content they are complaining is too easy. I don't understand why people say they give the same rewards to everyone regardless of how good they are, because that's patently not true. I don't understand the argument that there isn't any content because they added a huge amount of content this expac, and I always seem to have way too much to do in this game.(##RESPBREAK##)8##DELIM##ElhonnaDS##DELIM##
Post by
mmorpgaddict
The exact numbers of WoW subs is hard to get a handle on. They count things much differently in the asian markets. Plus their MMO culture is different too. They typically love super grindy games. Either way, I don't think WoW is in a bad spot at the moment. 5.4 is looking like a great big bowl of awesomeness and Blizzcon isn't that far off, which is gonna generate a ton of hype for the new X-pack.
Post by
Adamsm
Removal of so many RPG elements, no sense of accomplishment anymore, no reason to have goals.
There's so few things now that will keep players logging in besides their weekly laundry list of random loot.
Uh huh...yet, I recently found out that they changed the Raptor boss in ZG to be soloable...I've just found a new daily thing to do, and it's a chance at two mounts so yes sir!
Post by
murphmanfa
This is gonna be pretty long, so there's a tl;dr at the bottom for anyone not interested in my extensive rambling.
In terms of RP experiences, MoP is the first expansion where they have extensively used fully voiced cutscenes to progress a significant portion of the questlines, and to me that seems to be adding more RP elements. Also, they added relationship meters with certain NPC's to indicate a growing friendship. Which RP elements were removed in the last couple of expacs?
I remember starting years ago and getting really attached to my characters. Although the story of the game has never really been about the player on the individual level but more the role that they play in the greater plots happening in Azeroth, I felt a connection to my character. This is in part due to the sheer amount of time spent playing that toon, grinding out levels and exploring a world that at the time seemed to be almost endless.
The quests played into this, too. It felt as though I was really part of this huge world when I had to go from Tanaris to Eastern Plaguelands for that pain in the neck quest to get the tablets from the undead trolls way up in the northeast corner, only to come back and be sent somewhere else on EK. This was a quest that I remember being awful to do after the first time but when I was first doing it, it really felt like a long journey to do something that's not just worthwhile but essential. And although that sticks in my mind as the longest pain in the neck trip to make back and forth, I can think of several quest lines that spanned through zones (and sometimes across continents), continuously. There were magnificent chains that took you through the dungeons of the game that I wish hadn't disappeared, even though the attunements related to some of them are better off gone; there's story and stuff to see within the dungeons themselves that were much larger than what the players saw and participated in.
Ultimately, it feels as though there was much more involvement over a much larger area in the past- and this spans through 3.1 and Ulduar. I think that participation in these events and stories forged a bond between the player and the avatar through which they experienced things like the mystery surrounding Varian's disappearance and the revelation of Lady Prestor as Onyxia; or working your way through the rank and file up to the commanders of Kael'thas' armies from Terokkar Forest into Netherstorm, or being there with Thorim IN THE MOUNTAINS, a huge moment in a plot that is first encountered in Howling Fjord.
I'm aware that I'm romanticizing this stuff quite a bit, and doing it on more than one toon was a worse experience than gearing up a handful of top-level toons will ever be now or in the future; but these are, to me, fairly essential RP elements.
These went away in Cata. The quest flow was great with regard to accessibility and telling a complete story within each zone, but those stories seldom, if ever, had strong influences outside of that zone. It wasn't all interconnected parts of one big narrative, but more like reading the newspaper and seeing all the stuff that's going on everywhere that has no significant effect on the events immediately over whatever border. The flooding of Thousand Needles is hardly on the minds of the goblins in Gadgetzan, a narrow mountain pass away; Hyjal is burning, but nobody's even fazed by it in neighboring Felwood or Winterspring. This isn't to say that the stories within each zone aren't good- I've enjoyed the hell out of most of them, and more than a few have strong emotional impact, but these zones might as well be disconnected entirely from each other for all that it matters.
With MoP they've done a lot to fix this. The quest flow remains accessible and well-paced for the most part, there's a much higher level of immersion in the story than ever before and the story itself at this point is more fascinating than I've found it to be since early Wrath, and Wrathion's legendary quest chain is reminiscent of those longer epic ones that I discussed above. More than that we've got major plot characters being focused on in the story- Varian, Vol'jin, Garrosh, Jaina- and the events are not only playing out in Pandaria but we see things happening in Orgrimmar, Teldrassil, and on the complete opposite side of the world from Pandaria, in Dalaran.
Unfortunately to get to this point, you have to go through 85 levels of mostly non-immersive and disconnected content. This makes brittle any bond that could be forged with your characters and by the time you set foot in the Jade Forest the experience has become largely routine, dampening the wonder that should be felt when you get to a new continent.
tl;dr:
The current content is some of the best yet with regards to RP and immersion, but the revamping in Cata of most of the content
away
from that RP experience makes it difficult to approach the new, brilliant stuff with a mindset that differs from the routine learned over the past 85 levels. This effectively nerfs the RP experience, and that is frustrating to see.
Post by
1014404
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
76929
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
murphmanfa
Perhaps make a super hard-mode for the hardcores?
Challenge mode-style gear adjusting so that you have to face Garrosh with the ilvl of early Jade Forest questing greens.
Post by
Mike
Perhaps make a super hard-mode for the hardcores?
Challenge mode-style gear adjusting so that you have to face Garrosh with the ilvl of early Jade Forest questing greens.
No and no thank you.
Difficulty of content is not an issue.
Post by
Jkpman
I know it is the cliche response, but for the people who say there isn't a challenge in this game anymore, I wonder if any of them have actually cleared Heroic Raids, gotten gold medals in the challenge mode dungeons, gotten top Arena or Rated Battlegrounds ratings, etc. It seems to me that most people who complain about there being no challenges haven't completed any of the challenging content- how can you say content isn't challenging if you have never completed it?
I think this is the best and most accurate answer so far.
IMO there is too much easy content for the dumbed down masses. A guy in my guild recently quit till the next patch because in his words "I've done all there is to do till the next patch" and indeed yes he had completed every single raid finder raid at least once.
I've seen the attitude get gradually worse over the years, people wanting more, easier, quicker content. (which is why so few saw any of the earlier Cata raids, and even fewer actually beat them, for example)
I don't actually think it would be a bad thing for WoW to reach a plateau of honest players and let the whingers just go play something else.
Where is the problem? You pay a pittance for THE best game in the genre, They consistently update the game with massive amounts of new content, and yet people still would rather complain about what they don't have rather than what they do.
Post by
1000947
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Jkpman
its my asumption that people thought it was good back then but when compared to todays game it was worse.
Indeed.
Wow vanilla was brilliant when there was no comparison, you compare it to today's version of 0-60 and there is no contest.
I have yet to meet a single person who longs for the return of flame resist gear or the grind to get it.
Post by
Adamsm
For what is important to me in this game, there is no doubt that BC is the place I want to be.
Really? BC was brutal on alts, especially with the group quests at that time.
Post by
Adamsm
Honestly, I hated the BC era quests on alts, especially as I'm a bit OCD when it comes to reps; I had 4 max level alts back then, and trying to find people to do the quests to unlock Ogri'la was a massive pain in the ass...hell, it was even that way for a bit in Wrath.
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