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Why must we kill our own kind?
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Post by
MyTie
~
ok, whatever.
If you bring guns I bring HIV
I think this is a valid discussion. Some people who have HIV have had unprotected sex without informing their partner of their HIV+ status. I think that it is their fault, not their HIV, that that person dies sooner. Another aspect of personal responsibility.
Let's talk about these things.
Post by
240140
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
MyTie
My point, which should be obvious, is that abortion has killed more people
I think when you say something like this you need to present a source.
I'm having trouble with context. If he is saying abortion has killed more people than war, he is wrong, but if he is saying that abortion for reasons other than health of the mother has killed more than abortion for reasons for the health of the mother, he'd be correct and if I printed all the sources off the internet, I could build a 32 bedroom house out of them.
Post by
1069282
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Post by
240140
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
1069282
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
240140
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
1069282
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Skreeran
Let's not bring gun control into this.
And why not? Why is that not an integral part of this discussion?Because that is a huge can-of-worms that deserves it's own topic, rather than parasitizing this one.
Post by
Monday
There is difference between Killing and Murdering. If I'm correct we should use murdering couse murder is planed death.
Not necessarily. Killing can be in self defense, war, etc.
However, murder doesn't have to be planned. Someone can be trying to rob a store with a gun and accidentally shoot the owner. They'd still be charged with murder.
Post by
MyTie
Let's not bring gun control into this.
And why not? Why is that not an integral part of this discussion?Because that is a huge can-of-worms that deserves it's own topic, rather than parasitizing this one.
I disagree. I think we don't need to talk about gun control exclusively, but FORBIDDING talking about gun control would be like FORBIDDING talking about Christianity during a discussion about religion, or calories in a discussion about diet, or tomato sauce in a discussion about spaghetti. That's how I see it, anyway. Let's all talk about spaghetti, but don't you dare talk about sauce. There is a difference between off-topic, and a subset of a topic that can draw a lot of attention.
Post by
Skreeran
Let's not bring gun control into this.
And why not? Why is that not an integral part of this discussion?Because that is a huge can-of-worms that deserves it's own topic, rather than parasitizing this one.
I disagree. I think we don't need to talk about gun control exclusively, but FORBIDDING talking about gun control would be like FORBIDDING talking about Christianity during a discussion about religion, or calories in a discussion about diet, or tomato sauce in a discussion about spaghetti. That's how I see it, anyway. Let's all talk about spaghetti, but don't you dare talk about sauce. There is a difference between off-topic, and a subset of a topic that can draw a lot of attention.I'm not forbidding it--it's not my thread--but I'd rather not open that can of worms just yet. Everyone has strong feelings on the topic because of recent political discussion, and I'm afraid it would blow up and overwhelm the actual main topic of discussion here.
Post by
MyTie
I'm afraid it would blow up and overwhelm the actual main topic of discussion here.
Although I understand your concern, I think it is unwarranted, considering abortion has been brought up, and doesn't seem to be a big thing.
Post by
Skreeran
Again though, abortion--while certainly a big topic with strong opinions--it's currently as big a subject of discussion in the political theatre. Perhaps my view is biased--thanks to my dad being super-concerned about gun control because our several military-grade weapons (and because he's a super hardline conservative)--but I can't even bring it up in my house without getting an earful of "the government confiscated X person's guns because of this" or "the Obama administration doesn't care about the Constitution because of X."
I mean, I probably agree with you on the issue, but I'd rather not let it take over the conversation here.
Post by
MyTie
Again though, abortion--while certainly a big topic with strong opinions--it's currently as big a subject of discussion in the political theatre. Perhaps my view is biased--thanks to my dad being super-concerned about gun control because our several military-grade weapons (and because he's a super hardline conservative)--but I can't even bring it up in my house without getting an earful of "the government confiscated X person's guns because of this" or "the Obama administration doesn't care about the Constitution because of X."
I mean, I probably agree with you on the issue, but I'd rather not let it take over the conversation here.
I think I may understand your liberal persuasions.
Post by
Magician22773
You said abortion has killed more people than wars. Please present a source on that.
In 2008, approximately
1.21 million abortions
took place in the U.S., down from an estimated 1.29 million in 2002, 1.31 million in 2000 and 1.36 million in 1996. From 1973 through 2008, nearly
50 million
legal
abortions
have occurred in the U.S. (AGI).
Counter
was at 1.28 BILLION when I linked this.
That sounds pretty abstract. Also pretty incorrect. While the CDC reports roughly a million a year (on average), World War 2 alone cost 40-72 million people their lives. World War 1 was another 15-65 million.
Approximately 42 million abortions occur every year worldwide.
That is in a YEAR. Every couple of years, we kill roughly as many as died in each World War.
Abortion killed 73 times more Americans than died in battle in our last 12 wars combined
Not quite so "abstract" now.
I'm having trouble with context. If he is saying abortion has killed more people than war, he is
wrong
,
Was I?
Post by
240140
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Magician22773
All the links don't seem to work but the ones that do seem very biased and not very credible, one seems to be made in paint and is counting once a second...
I fixed the one broken link for you.
And you can either read
this
, or you can look at the counter.
Yeah, its not exactly the flashiest of graphics, but its not something I just whipped up in paint to make a point here.
So, since my sources are "not very credible"...lets see yours. Disprove the statistics.
As MyTie said, I could build a house out if the sources that are available with just a simple Google search. Its not exactly that hard to calculate the number of abortions. Most of them are sadly legal, so their is plenty of documentation.
Post by
Squishalot
The 42m abortions link is borked. Now that you've fixed it, I can identify that the subsequent link to their original source is no longer available.
That being said, I wouldn't believe that - the US would probably have similar levels of abortion to other developed countries in the world, which have a higher rate of abortion to the 2nd and 3rd world nations in the world generally. If I take the 1.21m number as fact, and note that that number is about 0.3%-0.4% of the US population, I get between 18-24m abortions across a global 6b population, without factoring in a lower abortion rate in less developed nations. I find that number highly unlikely and over sensationalised.(##RESPBREAK##)8##DELIM##Squishalot##DELIM##
Post by
240140
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
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