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Usage of a specific racial slur.
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Post by
asakawa
I really think that that kind of thinking is part of the problem and is keeping it a problem. You're saying that I can not use a word? Of course I can - though I would do well to consider carefully the effect of doing so. I'm saying we should have respect for this word and that we certainly should have respect for people who the word affects but walling it off and suggesting that generations of people in entirely different cultures, countries and continents should feel guilty about it is not healthy.
To be clear I am not talking about using it to greet or refer to a black person but I am talking about discussions like this. What good is done by having this discussion and not using the word? Would any good be done if we did use it in this context? I think so though of course that's a whole other topic for discussion.
regarding your edit: If a user here said that they had black skin and they thought it was fine to talk about it would that make it okay? We are a part of our societies. We have opinions about the words people use and the way they interact. I strongly feel that people with blue eyes are every bit as worthwhile as those with grey but the fact that I have green eyes means I can't discuss it?(##RESPBREAK##)16##DELIM##asakawa##DELIM##
Post by
1069282
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
240140
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
1069282
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
240140
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
1069282
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
asakawa
Elura, I am very clearly saying (or trying to) that I think that word, it's power and its significance should be properly understood and respected. I am not saying we should be comfortable using it in random everyday conversations. I am saying, however, that words have the power to hurt only when they are allowed to and I think that serious, candid discussions like this one help to deflate that power to inflict harm.
Post by
1069282
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
240140
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
1069282
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
asakawa
The thread is fine and will not be removed.
Do they really have to smack you till you are almost dead?
In the interests of clarity, this is the sentence that is not okay.
Post by
Jubilee
For me, it's mostly a matter of just calling a person by whatever they want, whether it's a simple as saying Ms. instead of Mrs. all the way to not using an offensive word when they are around. I think the important thing is to a) use your common sense when dealing with people you don't have a rapport with and b) work on an individual basis and find out what each individual person is comfortable with, because every person is different.
Post by
Nathanyal
My group of friends call each other "nig". We don't mean anything other than what we call each other. We also use "&*!@-ah" like most other people do. Come to find out, "nig" was a term in baseball for dark-skinned and dark-completion players.
And asa isn't the only one to think that censoring the word is a bad thing.
however, historians and social activists, such as *!@# Gregory, criticize the euphemisms and their usage as intellectually dishonest, because using the euphemism "the N-word" instead of @#$%^& robs younger generations of Americans of the full history of Black people in America.
The word is as much of their culture as anything else.
And it wasn't always a derogative word. It was just an alteration of other words, such as negro, that meant black.
Up until the 1950s there was a brand in The UK called "@#$%^& boy brand" candy cigarettes. Even Agatha Christies book went by the name "10 Little %^&*!@s" until the 80s.
It wasn't until people started siting it as racist to use that word that it was frowned upon.
There is a lot more about it on the wiki page.
Post by
Patty
It's cited as racist because it was a word used to systematically belittle, degrade and other-ise black people, by whites. It should be used in educational purposes about black history, I agree, but not in every day conversation by white people, especially in front of other blacks because it is basically waving in their face "hey, we used to own people like you, you know". Especially when blacks still don't exactly have full equality from white
society
(NB: not in legal terms).
Post by
asakawa
Well, to be clear, I don't really believe in censorship at all and specifically (as in this case) in cases where one group was labelled by another group which was in a position of power over the first. In the UK an equivalent is the word "Paki". It is simple an abbreviation of the word Pakistani BUT that does not mean that it is an "innocent" word that should be used freely since it isn't immediately offensive on the face of it. It does have a history of being used to separate, label and abuse others and that ought to be well understood.
Essentially I don't think that we can (or ought to try to) rewind to a time when something wasn't a problem and decide that the word is fine. When you say that a word used to be okay I think that all you're demonstrating is that there was a time that nobody cared that a group could be offended by it - this is likely because that group was still oppressed in one way or another.
We should be educated. We should be adult about the subject. We should be caring of peoples' feelings. We should be caring of a culture's history. We should not let these things happen in the future.
edit: I like your word "other-ise", that works rather well.
There's something else here that I find very difficult to put into words and which may well be off topic for this discussion but you talk about "blacks" and "Whites" but this is still grouping and it feels like it is still grouping in an unhealthy way (unhealthy though certainly not racist in the same way as we're tlaking about).
I once saw a clip of Morgan Freeman discussing why he opposes "Black History Month" and he said something along the lines of: You stop calling me a black man and I stop calling you a white man, I know you as John, you know me as Morgan.
All skin has colour that doesn't really reduce down to black and white (I have that Scottish complexion that's almost blue ^_^). There's no ignoring that people are different but it's only an issue when we make it an issue... I think.
edit again:
the clip I mentioned
Agree or disagree with his solution, there's a beautiful simplicity to it.(##RESPBREAK##)16##DELIM##asakawa##DELIM##
Post by
240140
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Nathanyal
If the only time they get offended by the word is when someone of another race says it, that's idiotic. Them calling each other that should be just as offensive as me or you saying the word.
Black people have accepted the word, but only if other black people use the word.
Post by
asakawa
Well Mr Freeman says "Black history is American history". I think he's in favour of people understanding the full history including all the unpleasant bits.
As for not talking about it not being a good solution, you may be right, I don't know. Racism is an issue where I live but it's an entirely different kind of thing to what I see in American media so I don't feel like I'm in a position to make a judgement on it - certainly no more than Morgan Freeman. In fact, almost everybody in this thread is not American I think which is weird for Wowhead. However, I don't think colour-blindness is required. I can be well aware that my Wife's eyes are greyish-green without her being my grey-ish green-eyed wife. We can, surely see peoples' skin colour without classifying them.
Nathanyal, that was Tush's main question and we talked about it on the first page. Aside from not respecting that position do you have anything to say about the explanations given on the previous page? Personally I do not see it as idiotic in the slightest.(##RESPBREAK##)16##DELIM##asakawa##DELIM##
Post by
240140
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Nathanyal
Nope, I'm done.
I just think it's strange when one person is offended by a name moreso than the person that's being called that name.
Edit: And I dont just mean race wise. It happens with lots of things.
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