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Professions and working for a living - nerfing has issues
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Post by
292411
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
292411
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
GeorgeBob
Nothing in WoW tradeskill wise is even tedious to level. run back at 90 and get the mats yourself.Yes, because circling Hellfire Penn for several hours, hoping you get enough Fel Iron, is not tedious in the least, nope nope nope.
This. << I couldn't find a single node until I got the fastest flying available, and even then I still have to fight people.
I wonder how long it will be before blizzard starts selling level 90 characters geared to an i-lvl high enough to start runnng hc's.Nearly everything being done in the game nowadys is aimed at getting you to end game as quickly as possible with little effort required on the users part.I don't think it's to big a leap to think that the same people struggling to level a proff because it's to hard or to boring or not fair because they don't have much time to play or thier dog is ill or any other excuse you can think of,will also eventually say the same thing about leveling a new character.
In wow at the moment effort = reward seems to be a swear word worthy of a perma ban
This is a scary thought. I understand that they want to attract new players, and that the new players will need some incentive to try to catch up with long time players. But over the years the game has taken less and less skill. As I said, I never found wow to be that difficult. I remember the days when you had to EXPLORE to do a quest. I mean, really look for what it was you were after. When the quest map marker came out I turned it off for a few months. But then people started to out level me, and I realized in order to stay competitive, I had to take the easy button out too. Every expansion they are removing things that make the game too "complicated" that I felt made it feel real. My favorite example?
Hunters. I'm not talking about mana, I'm glad that stuffs gone. What I'm talking about is Ammo, and pet happiness/leveling.
Was getting bullets/arrows annoying? Yes. But it sort of fostered a sense of bonding between hunters. You could always ask your friend "do you have any bullets?" And you could share in the hunting madness. I usually carried two types of ammo on me just in case, and I even had a rogue friend who would carry bullets and arrows because he knew I would run out eventually.
Now for pet leveling and happiness levels. Does it make sense that a person can tame a lion and force it from its natural habitat and the lion actually
enjoy
it? It was always amusing to me when my pets threw a fit if I let them die. At one point I remember letting myself die first because gosh, I didn't want my wolf Varney to be angry at me. It wasn't just a feed pet button either. You had to carry their favorite treats around, which I think made you more connected to the type of pet you owned. I personally hated turtles because of all the weird stuff you had to feed them. I usually tamed hawks or meat eaters instead.
And pet leveling...what inexperienced animal would all of a sudden know how to enter combat? How would it know how or when to attack? Again, I think that leveling pets made you more closer to your pet. Now you can just go whack any poor thing across the head and its insta 90. You don't feel the triumph of finally transforming this weak little useless thing into a killing machine. Pets now are like decorations. If you don't like them, you can just release them or put them in one of the many empty spaces in your stable. They are disposable because you no longer have to work to get them playable. I still have this owl I hate just because I remember leveling it to 70.
Post by
Wowpixel
Nothing in WoW tradeskill wise is even tedious to level. run back at 90 and get the mats yourself.Yes, because circling Hellfire Penn for several hours, hoping you get enough Fel Iron, is not tedious in the least, nope nope nope.
That's the norm with tradeskilling. It takes a long time to be a master of your profession, it doesn't come overnight. Ask anyone who are masters in the trades, there's a reason why you're going to be a called a journeyman for a long time.
Post by
Adamsm
That's the norm with tradeskilling. It takes a long time to be a master of your profession, it doesn't come overnight. Ask anyone who are masters in the trades, there's a reason why you're going to be a called a journeyman for a long time.
Actually...it ain't; getting 1-60 mats was simple, as were the 80-85 ones; it was only in BC that it sucked massively for Fel Iron and then Cobalt. The other gathering professions though? I raced through herbing and skinning like it was nothing, and for leatherworking and inscript, while there is the tedium, at least it's still not as bad as Blacksmithing and Mining.
Post by
Wowpixel
Actually...it ain't; getting 1-60 mats was simple
Mining/Herbalism/Skinning aren't tradeskills, they're gathering professions.
In other games gathering is available for all, and require no additional training other than leveling through them. They're regarded as secondary skills.
MUDs and EvE require years to level a profession. Heck, one MUD I played it required 3hrs to temper a weapon.
I don't consider WoW tradeskills tedious or difficult in any shape or form. It's certainly easier than any MMO I've played.
Post by
Adamsm
You might not, but a large number of players do; Mining, Blacksmithing and Engineering are still the most tedious professions in WoW to level.
Post by
oldnewb
You might not, but a large number of players do; Mining, Blacksmithing and Engineering are still the most tedious professions in WoW to level.
I agree with you,especially for the engineering.But where do you draw the line.I personally find leveling new characters very tedious,but I wouldn't want it changed so I could just stand in stormwind smacking a training dummy for an hour and level to 90 that way.I understand that if I want a new character to play at end game then I need to put in some effort.Alot of the problems now stem from society in general,that want the reward,but without putting any effort in themselves.
I just feel that this is a slippery slope,and once you start down this route it's going to be very hard to stop
Post by
Adamsm
You might not, but a large number of players do; Mining, Blacksmithing and Engineering are still the most tedious professions in WoW to level.
I agree with you,especially for the engineering.But where do you draw the line.I personally find leveling new characters very tedious,but I wouldn't want it changed so I could just stand in stormwind smacking a training dummy for an hour and level to 90 that way.I understand that if I want a new character to play at end game then I need to put in some effort.Alot of the problems now stem from society in general,that want the reward,but without putting any effort in themselves.
I just feel that this is a slippery slope,and once you start down this route it's going to be very hard to stop
And I don't; all this is a way to speed up leveling a very dull and tedious ability...just like how the EXP nerfs that come every expansion are a way to boost you through out of date content to get to the meat of the game sooner.
Post by
Wowpixel
And I don't; all this is a way to speed up leveling a very dull and tedious ability...just like how the EXP nerfs that come every expansion are a way to boost you through out of date content to get to the meat of the game sooner.
How old are you, Adamsm?
The current generation appears to want things handed to them on a silver platter. Downing a boss isn't enough thrill, they have to have an even level field .
Those who were raised in a generation of "if you don't work for it, you don't appreciate it" cheapening the leveling of tradeskills cheapens the "master" feel of it. It's no different than scaling heroic raids to LFR levels so everyone can gear the same -- those who did the work, won't be happy.
Like in life there has to be some goal to shoot for, as an inspiration to keep trudging through the mundane to get there. Otherwise, the game will become instant 90+s, with all gear and skills leveled. What's the point of trying, since XYZ has everything you do?
If you ever wonder why the Soviet equipment was shabby, that's your answer -- no reward for trying to do things more efficiently or better, just go with the flow and collect the dole (conservation of resources).
Post by
Adamsm
About to turn 30....and as I've hit max profession on more then 10 toons at this point, I'm glad they are making it easier for people to get up there without having to do the endless tedious grinds that currently exist in so much non-max level content.
Post by
Wowpixel
About to turn 30....and as I've hit max profession on more then 10 toons at this point, I'm glad they are making it easier for people to get up there without having to do the endless tedious grinds that currently exist in so much non-max level content.
More than 10 toons isn't the average in WoW (most have only one account). On that one account 3 would be reserved for having all the tradeskilling and 1 harvester. Plus, at least one toon as a bank toon.
So if you can raise more than 10 toons, your main has enough gold and time to get the mats.
Just like twinking, it's an expensive hobby either in buying the twink gear or farming for it. And it isn't like this game doesn't need more gold sinks.
Post by
Adamsm
I also enjoy server hoping; so having a new way to get up some professions is nice.
But hey, here's the biggest thing: If you want to level the old way....Go right ahead. Nothing at all stopping you from doing that. Me? I'll use the new ways, because I enjoy them. So to each their own.
Post by
Wowpixel
I also enjoy server hoping; so having a new way to get up some professions is nice.
So, again, you're not the average WoW player who winkles their nose at $25 transfer fees - one way.
You have the money, time (to level 10 alts) and resources. It's not hurting you but to level itself.
For new players, leveling as they go they learn their profession (and mats required to make them, especially the need for a base ingredient; some magical essence; and some rare ingredient). By doing so they understand what is rare (so they can farm and sell for a profit) and get a better understanding of how the auction house works by selling items.
All that is moot with instant leveling at end-game.
Post by
Adamsm
So...have to ask: What is the difference between power leveling a profession, and doing it this way?
And while it's true that Ghost Iron is going to jump here...all of the other 1-85 mats are still going to sell well, since there are still going to be Jewelcrafters and Engineers out there, who will still be looking for the low level stuff for making special items to sell for a profit(IE pets and transmog items).
This is primarily a way for people who have max level toons to skip a long tedious process.
Post by
Wowpixel
Because remembering vendoring stacks for a profit isn't a fond memory to relive.
If saronite vendored for 25g and people sold it on AH for 21g, why not just buy all the 21g ore on AH and vendor it for an easy 4g profit? I LOVE situations like that, it's free money.
I'd rather work smart than stupid.
Obviously you didn't play WotLK, here's the math:
1. Vendor price for a stack of Saronite bars - 25g.
2. AH price of 21g + 8g 24hr selling fee - 29g.
You couldn't make a profit...it'll actually cost you 4g more per stack. -_-
Why folks just vendored it. It cost 1/3 of a stack to just list it.
Post by
Eccentrica
Strand has a point actually Wowpixel. The AH posting fee and the AH cut are paid by the seller, not the buyer.
If you post a stack for 21g, the buyer pays 21g, that's it. He buys it for 21g, vendors it for 25g and bags a 4g profit per stack. The seller on the other hand needs to smack himself in the head for costing himself even more gold than necessary.
I've made 2000g since 1 Dec on one of my mail toons buying auctions posted for less than vendor, and subsequently vendoring them.
Post by
Wowpixel
Strand has a point actually Wowpixel. The AH posting fee and the AH cut are paid by the seller, not the buyer.
What you're forgetting is the stock of Saronite was so much...no one would buy it. That is why folks were dumping it at a loss, as bank space was more important.
4g profit isn't worth the time to want to buy it, especially since so many more items could've been flipped for profit much easier...
and actually sold
.
Post by
Eccentrica
On the contrary, it's very much worth it. I can buy 50 items from the AH, pull them out of the mail and sell them to a vendor in about 2 minutes. If that was Saronite at 21g per stack, that yields a 4g per stack profit.
4g x50 stacks = 200g, for 2 minutes of my life. That's 6000g per hour. I would do that all day every day if some fool wanted to post ore at 4g under vendor to feed me.
And like other JCs during Wrath, I bought Saronite and the cheaper of Eternal or Crystallized Earth till my fingers bled. It was prospected and made into Bloodstone Band, Crystal Chalcedony Amulet, Crystal Citrine Necklace and Sun Rock Ring. Those were then promptly vendored. The other gems not used for the process were vendored as well. We did this till for hour after hour, day after day.
Then there was the transmute of red gems to consider. JCs wanted ore to prospect to get Scarlet Rubies to transmute into Cardinal Rubies. Titanium was always sky high in price due to relative scarcity and its usefulness for prospecting and getting Titanium powder to turn in for JC tokens. This made Saronite highly desirable.
The huge amount of ore was mana from heaven for JCs and we drank it down like poets on payday. So don't tell me Saronite didn't sell. It did, at the right price. Just like Obsidium and Elementium sold like a house on fire for anything under 30g per stack before the vendor price of green gems was nerfed in Cata. If I prospected one stack of Obsidium, I prospected a thousand in the lead up to that nerf.
Whatever price ore is posted for, the buyer HAS to be able to turn a profit too, or you simply won't sell any (or at least not damned much of it).
Post by
292411
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
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