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Professions and working for a living - nerfing has issues
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Post by
Wowpixel
Oh crap, that big screen TV I bought last year is now 75% off the price I paid for it. I worked so hard to save up the money to buy it and now people can buy it for nearly nothing. ITS NOT FAIR!
Grow up.
Did you farm the mats to build it yourself?
That's the issue here - the mats and the supply and demand of them.
Growing up you learn that without a decent supply of cheap mats, few things get made, as the margins for profit dwindle due to the high cost of mats (mats that the buyer could get their farmer to go get himself). Ghost Iron will become scarce driving the cost of a end-game mat up, a mat needed for Blacksmithing; Jewelcrafting; and Engineering -- half the professions in the game.
And guess who profits the most? The botters. -_-
Post by
Adamsm
Heh, I love comments like these; sure the price will sky rocket for a while...then, just like every other time something like this comes around, the Undercutter army will steadily drop the prices down till the 'expensive' mat price is down in the dumps.
I see it on my server right now; uncut gems are about 5-10 times more expensive then the cut ones, due to the people I generously term as the 'stupids'. That's why I love having a few different toons who do farming; I pick an hour, go out and see what I can get in that time frame, then send those mats across my other toons to make things.
Post by
Wowpixel
Heh, I love comments like these
I do too. As I remember the prices of Saronite towards the end of WotLK -- got more of a profit vendoring a stack of bars at 25g, than folks trying to sell it at 21g on the AH (and also swallowing the then 8g AH fee the botters were willing to pay).
When folks remember that nonsense, they can be a tad cautious about changing availability of mats.
Post by
Adamsm
So if you remember those times, why are you up in arms about this? Same effect is going to happen; from now till 5.2 is out, people will be trying to charge outrageous prices for Ghost Iron...then a week after the patch, the prices will be back to normal, or most people will be out and about farming for their new alts who they decide to make blacksmiths. Yes it is possible to level this new way....but you can still level the old way too; and the idea that low level mats are going to be useless is absurd; you'll still be able to sell the 1-80 ores for good prices, since Engineers and Jewelcrafters will still be buying them to level their skills.
Too many people are putting the cart before the horse, same as they do every time a new change comes out.
Post by
Wowpixel
So if you remember those times, why are you up in arms about this?
Because remembering vendoring stacks for a profit isn't a fond memory to relive.
Blizzard didn't realize (as the game wasn't designed for CRZ) that releasing CRZ there would be a problem with collecting mats that no longer just go to Alliance or Horde factions. It could go to 8 other realms, with 2 factions each. That's not mat competition, that's simply mat depletion. They instead made a patently untrue statement that mat collection is about competition. Well, competition between factions, not other realms and their factions.
This is how Blizzard is trying to alleviate that problem (especially since there's wholesale ganking going on at lower levels, drying up the supply for leveling mats on top of the 8 realms x 2 faction collecting).
It's a bandaid, it doesn't fix the problem of what CRZ did to leveling the professions. It also will hurt the supply of the primary mat for half the professions at end-game. The resource depletion will now just move to end-game. With those memories of the scarity of Cobalt ore, and Saronite so cheap vendoring was the only profit (which maybe the case after the glut of Blacksmiths are gone, and folks have a bank of worthless Ghost Iron).
Been there, done that, got the T-Shirt.
Post by
GeorgeBob
Personally I am kind of upset about the BS changes. I leveled it the hard way only a few months ago. You cant expect people to be thrilled to see an easy-mode answer appear after they've done all their hard work. Its not the same thing as buying something for a certain price and then it being lowered; wrong analogy.
You can buy a big screen tv and then it goes on sale at 75%. But think of why that TV went on sale. The technology has become so common place and easy to produce that the price drops as a result. BS, on the other hand, is not an outdated good. People still need weapons, belt buckles, etc. And with the new patch coming there will be another demand for transmogable weapons. Does it make sense to lower the cost of something that is becoming MORE valuable?
They already wrecked JC with those blue quality green gems. I can cut a stack of 15 and almost always get at least one or two. Whats the point of trying to sell blue ones anymore? Uncut you may sell them for 50-60g. Cut? 10g? Just above the price they vendor at.
If I had to compete with level 10s to get copper ore and fly all over the place just for the mats to level my trade, sure I am going to be upset when someone can just click Buyout on the AH and get all the mats they need from one source. You could argue that anyone could buy the different types of ore, but then you'd be wrong. Fel Iron was a pain to get, as its always scares because of so many farmers. And the farmers put it in at like 100g per 10 bars.
i fail too see how the BS change will make the low level ore prices skyrocket?
if anything they will drop, cause people will just keep farming them as much as they did before. there just less people interested in buying them. so they need too drop if they wanna sell what they got.
I agree with this. If you have ore sell it now, because an entire trade skill will no longer require old mats. What low level toon would level BS when there is no real benefit to it until after lvl 85? The ores will only be used for JC and Engi.
Look at it this way. There will be less Miners out in the world. Instead of basically having to take Mining with Blacksmithing, now I can take something else. So, I can have Tailoring and Blacksmithing, if I want, or maybe Enchanting and Blacksmithing.
With less Miners in the world, there will be less supply of low level ore. The demand should also be slightly less, so maybe just a slight increase in ore prices.
Cheers.
There won't be less miners. There will be the same number of miners with goods that no one can sell. I personally took mining on three toons because of the stam buff. It helps that you can just pick up cash while you are walking around.
I understand the need to try to update a skill that has sort of fallen by the wayside. There aren't nearly as many benefits to BS as JC or Enchanting; What does 2 extra gem slots do for you that 2 600g stat gems can't do? Even Engineering has glove tinkers with 3k stat increases with minimal Cds.
But I don't necessarily think that nerfing a profession is the best way to increase people's interest in it. It won't necessarily raise it from the dead or make more people pick it up. I personally think the only reason they nerfed BS is because of all the new (old) weapons they are creating for it. They want to show off their handy work, and if no one wants to be a BS because its too "hard", there won't be many of those weapons for show. I hope that this turns out to be a mess, so they will learn how to balance professions properly.
Post by
Wombat62
Personally I am kind of upset about the BS changes. I leveled it the hard way only a few months ago. You cant expect people to be thrilled to see an easy-mode answer appear after they've done all their hard work. Its not the same thing as buying something for a certain price and then it being lowered; wrong analogy.
.
But how is the new way the easy way ?
1) it will cost you a lot more if you buy the Mats
2) it will take you MUCH longer , even with CRZs to mine the mats
3) The end products are no where near as useful ( I send all I make while leveling a profession to our guild echanter to DE )
Post by
GeorgeBob
Personally I am kind of upset about the BS changes. I leveled it the hard way only a few months ago. You cant expect people to be thrilled to see an easy-mode answer appear after they've done all their hard work. Its not the same thing as buying something for a certain price and then it being lowered; wrong analogy.
.
But how is the new way the easy way ?
1) it will cost you a lot more if you buy the Mats
2) it will take you MUCH longer , even with CRZs to mine the mats
3) The end products are no where near as useful ( I send all I make while leveling a profession to our guild echanter to DE )
I pick up enough ore for 25 bars of ghost iron while just looking for dark soil in VOFW. If I really went farming I could have a ton more. Actually, I think I might.
As far as buying the mats costing you more...I agree, it will when it first launches. But eventually the prices will fall again, and you won't have to look for different kinds of ore (the most tedious part of leveling this profession). That's not even considering the people who've picked up piles of this stuff before the patch hits. My guild master can't bring himself to fly over a mine, so I don't even want to know how much of it he has stored.
The older enchanting mats tend to not sale well anymore on my server, though I can't speak for yours. I've tried this, and I usually ended up just vendoring the BS products for gold.
Post by
Wowpixel
But how is the new way the easy way ?
You didn't level Blacksmithing as you leveled.
I did, when you had to choose between Armorsmithing and Weaponsmithing. Made and wore the Bulwark of Ancient Kings, farmed all the mats. It was a source of pride as it was difficult to do, especially farming all the primals (no way I could've afforded $120 Primal Mights a piece, in a day when 200g was a lot).
Now they want Blacksmiths at every corner to sell the new Reborn weapons. Personally, they're not so appealing to make (if I did make one for myself, it would be transmorged...don't like the TBC high contrast color scheme).
Some professions need to have a feeling of accomplishment to them. Blacksmithing/Leatherworking/Tailoring is about making -- usually -- two pieces of end-game gear that could even be BiS. For that, these professions need to feel like you earned the right to make them. Because if you didn't feel like it's earned its not as appreciated.
Post by
Adamsm
You didn't level Blacksmithing as you leveled.
I didI did that once...and that was the biggest freakin mistake I've ever made in my WoW playing career; if I had been smart about it, I would have waited till I was max level before starting in on that mindless grind.
Post by
Wowpixel
You didn't level Blacksmithing as you leveled.
I didI did that once...and that was the biggest freakin mistake I've ever made in my WoW playing career; if I had been smart about it, I would have waited till I was max level before starting in on that mindless grind.
It wasn't a mistake at all. I've done it in many MMOs and MUDs and the status quo way to do so. It's a good feeling to make your gear as you level (why else to be a Blacksmith? Just making for end-game?), and actually using what's available, not when it's gray in the log at 90. It's pointless then.
Post by
Adamsm
It wasn't a mistake at all. I've done it in many MMOs and MUDs and the status quo way to do so. It's a good feeling to make your gear as you level (why else to be a Blacksmith? Just making for end-game?), and actually using what's available, not when it's gray in the log at 90. It's pointless then.
Thing is though, 1-10 gear is good, but after that point, the quest and dungeon gear is better; pretty much the same. Yes it's nice at the level cap, but really, it's still the third worst profession to level(Engineering being the first).
Post by
Wowpixel
Thing is though, 1-10 gear is good, but after that point, the quest and dungeon gear is better; pretty much the same. Yes it's nice at the level cap, but really, it's still the third worst profession to level(Engineering being the first).
If WoW Blacksmithing is difficult, never play a MUD or even EvE.
Post by
Adamsm
If WoW Blacksmithing is difficult, never play a MUD or even EvE.
Not difficult, mind numbling boring to level.
Post by
GeorgeBob
Thing is though, 1-10 gear is good, but after that point, the quest and dungeon gear is better; pretty much the same. Yes it's nice at the level cap, but really, it's still the third worst profession to level(Engineering being the first).
If WoW Blacksmithing is difficult, never play a MUD or even EvE.
Its not so much as being difficult as being tedious. If you look at it that way nothing in wow is difficult. All people do is click keys and mouses.
Post by
Eccentrica
Its not so much as being difficult as being tedious. If you look at it that way nothing in wow is difficult. All people do is click keys and mouses.
Oooh, I dunno. Staying one step ahead of rogues counts as difficult I'd say, but then I am only moderately better than an AFKer at PvP.
Post by
Azrile
Shifting the market to max level makes sense. New players can't afford to spend 50g for a stack of copper ore and low level cooking mats, nor should they have to. The market isn't being destroyed, it's being normalized, which is a good thing.
Not as long as there are JC's and engineers leveling. The low level mats will still be overpriced and the market won't be normal.
Level 90s will be buying ghost iron ore instead of copper ore. How can that possibly lead to prices going up for copper ore?
The other benefit is that without lvl 90s spending 50g a stack for low level ores, there won´t be as many botters in the CRZ zones, so new players and alts can find the ore they need to level their skills naturally.
Let me ask you this.. if you were giving advice to a new player, what would you tell him currently? My advice would be to not worry about professions until you are lvl 90, then go back and fly through the zone collecting the mats you need.
At least with this change, there is a chance new players can actually level their skills and buy mats at appropriate prices. I also don´t think ghost iron ore is going to skyrocket because most players who don´t have BS on a toon will probably not all suddenly decide to raise it the first week after 5.2 Yeah, there will be more competition, but also remember that the gem market is basically gone. JCs are not going to need to buy a ton of ghost ore. I have stacks and stacks of gems because most of them are selling for like 20g.
Post by
Wowpixel
Its not so much as being difficult as being tedious. If you look at it that way nothing in wow is difficult. All people do is click keys and mouses.
Then again never play:
1. A MUD.
2. EvE.
3. Any Asian grinder.
Nothing in WoW tradeskill wise is even tedious to level. Either you can buy your way to level or run back at 90 and get the mats yourself.
Folks want automatic tradeskill leveling next? Is that what WoW has become, instant gratification then screaming for something more to do, as even tradeskilling is too hard?
Post by
Adamsm
Nothing in WoW tradeskill wise is even tedious to level. run back at 90 and get the mats yourself.Yes, because circling Hellfire Penn for several hours, hoping you get enough Fel Iron, is not tedious in the least, nope nope nope.
Post by
oldnewb
I wonder how long it will be before blizzard starts selling level 90 characters geared to an i-lvl high enough to start runnng hc's.Nearly everything being done in the game nowadys is aimed at getting you to end game as quickly as possible with little effort required on the users part.I don't think it's to big a leap to think that the same people struggling to level a proff because it's to hard or to boring or not fair because they don't have much time to play or thier dog is ill or any other excuse you can think of,will also eventually say the same thing about leveling a new character.
In wow at the moment effort = reward seems to be a swear word worthy of a perma ban
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