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Lowbie ganking solution!
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Post by
Adamsm
But then I realized it could either be worked around or be kinda...unfair (What if you accidentally tag or kill a lowbie? What if swarms of lowbies start going everywhere flagged just to grief people?).Well an accidental tag wouldn't do much; the debuff would stack once, but since you aren't actually trying to kill him, could just wait for it to go away. It's more for the griefers and campers compared to the odd person who makes a mistake while out and about.
Post by
Wowpixel
I know that it seems trite to say that if you really don't want to engage in PvP as it exists in wow, then there are PvE servers, but its the truth.
That doesn't work.
PvP exists on every realm. Be it PvP/PvP/RP/PvP-RP realms.
But there needs to be a solution to a problem that exists on ALL realms. Just switching to some PvE realm doesn't stop the ganking.
My solution isn't some frilly tag or asking someone to pay to transfer, it's a possibility to delevel if the player is 10 levels higher and keeps killing lowbies. Not some point tax, make it hurt where it counts -- can't wear their level gear until they repay the XP fine.
Want to talk the talk, walk the walk.
Post by
ElhonnaDS
Right, but you snipped that out of a wall of text with a lot of legitimate concerns about what a non-discriminatory penalty like that would do to provide different griefing opportunities, and about all of the legitimate reasons someone might have to kill a lower level player on a PvP server. Rank's suggestion a few posts later than mine, I think, sounds like a fine solution that balances the need for people to be able to quest in the world, and the need for people to be able to defend their low level toons from being camped by mobs of toons of the same level, to be able to compete for rares and resources, and to participate in activities for achievements where killing opposite faction members- even lower level members- are required (Gurubashi Arena, Halaa, various flag- capping activities).
A lot of people are all "If you ever kill a lowbie ever you should be stripped of your character and have to level from 1," but might not feel the same if they've been corpse-running an alt from one place to another because a group of 6 enemy players are sitting on them, who lost a rare pet to a level 20 player of the opposite faction, or can't do anything about that DK who's riding around leaving stone in all the ore nodes and not letting them respawn for you to mine as well. Also, since WoW has tried that model before, and found that the reverse griefing was bad enough that they did away with it, a more moderate model would probably be needed.(##RESPBREAK##)8##DELIM##ElhonnaDS##DELIM##
Post by
lonewarrior
I know that it seems trite to say that if you really don't want to engage in PvP as it exists in wow, then there are PvE servers, but its the truth.
That doesn't work.
PvP exists on every realm. Be it PvP/PvP/RP/PvP-RP realms.
But there needs to be a solution to a problem that exists on ALL realms. Just switching to some PvE realm doesn't stop the ganking.
My solution isn't some frilly tag or asking someone to pay to transfer, it's a possibility to delevel if the player is 10 levels higher and keeps killing lowbies. Not some point tax, make it hurt where it counts -- can't wear their level gear until they repay the XP fine.
Want to talk the talk, walk the walk.
Since I've never played on a PvE server, how does Wpvp happen or a player get ganked and are players on low pve servers being CRZ to pvp servers?
As for pvp servers,,this has been going on since vanilla, if it was so poorly received, I doubt they would have prospered till now. Players manage.
I know CRZ has magnified the situation and at times caused frustration to exact revenge, which use to be the balancing effect.
I remember when bounties were put on particular adversaries who were renown grievers or in places like the Isle of Quel when one side would grief, eventually the other side would muster up a force to counter and peace would come again.
But this isn't the same community as I have said many times.
Blizz threw CRZ on a new genre of players who've had minimal experience in handling this renewed facet of the game, and much like LFR first was, it's being exploit by the "pvp ninjas" and causing consternation among the victims.
Not sure what Blizz is willing to do, simplest solution would be to let players just "unflag" themselves and pretty much have sanctuary status everywhere and/or just allow everyone to fly starting at level 20.
All the other solutions would just seem to require more coding, unnecessarily bogging down the system.
I know that the latest numbers show a drop in subs since the start of MoP, but I would really like to see the internal server numbers to see how CRZ has effected PvP servers.
On my current server, a very large horde guild formed that for a while decimated alliance locations. But we have countered and now in trade chat your seeing one guild spam after another about allegiance, protection, countering.
This is the effect Blizz is trying to renew again. Your not alone unless you play alone.
If the next CRZ update would not allow players to zone out by leaving an area unless they hearthstone back to their home city, then they could be pursued, where now that is a mechanism for escape.
Post by
Wowpixel
I know that the latest numbers show a drop in subs since the start of MoP, but I would really like to see the internal server numbers to see how CRZ has effected PvP servers.
I can say this much about CRZ: it sucks.
Not because of the availability of more players to play with, it's the node sharing, and worse, the lag/Battle.net disconnects switching from one zone to another. Today I went from Wintergrasp to fly back to Dalaran. Hit a CRZ so hard it stuttered, not once...three times. And I have excellent internet (50MB) and a very nice computer (that can run 3 clients @ over 60fps).
Cross into these zones like that, it's like returning to the old days of load screens. I quit for 3 months over it, as the reason I have 3 accounts is to level toons. Can't level with them if they're disconnected and/or the client crashes, and it's no use to play if I can't level with them -- the point in having so many accounts.
PvP wise I don't know how they could operate with such stutter/disconnecting.
Post by
Adamsm
I know that the latest numbers show a drop in subs since the start of MoP, but I would really like to see the internal server numbers to see how CRZ has effected PvP servers.Of course, the numbers are up from this time last year so....(9.1 million at this time from Cata to 9.6million).
Post by
lonewarrior
I know that the latest numbers show a drop in subs since the start of MoP, but I would really like to see the internal server numbers to see how CRZ has effected PvP servers.Of course, the numbers are up from this time last year so....(9.1 million at this time from Cata to 9.6million).
up or down, I'm really more interested in knowing whether CRZ is having a negative(players leaving) or positive(players going to) effect on PvP realms.
Using my own realm(bleeding Hollow)...I have noticed transfer guilds showing up and players asking in chat "is this a good pvp server?", but I'm not sure if that is related to CRZ and players seeking a robust Wpvp or players just looking to get off low pop servers.
Post by
Wowpixel
Using my own realm(bleeding Hollow)...I have noticed transfer guilds showing up and players asking in chat "is this a good pvp server?", but I'm not sure if that is related to CRZ and players seeking a robust Wpvp or players just looking to get off low pop servers.
That's happening all over now due to CRZ. It's mainly due to different realms now associating with each other. We had a few guilds transfer over (my realm is turning out to be an PvE realm alternative to Moon Guard, complete with the Horde invasion in Goldshire).
The other day someone asked in trade chat if the realm I'm on was good for raiding. It was an universal "no". Consistently since it's existence being in the lower 150th raiding bracket proves it (but hey, don't ask me to provide the Wowprogress link!).
Post by
Wowpixel
Right, but you snipped that out of a wall of text with a lot of legitimate concerns about what a non-discriminatory penalty like that would do to provide different griefing opportunities, and about all of the legitimate reasons someone might have to kill a lower level player on a PvP server. Rank's suggestion a few posts later than mine, I think, sounds like a fine solution that balances the need for people to be able to quest in the world, and the need for people to be able to defend their low level toons from being camped by mobs of toons of the same level, to be able to compete for rares and resources, and to participate in activities for achievements where killing opposite faction members- even lower level members- are required (Gurubashi Arena, Halaa, various flag- capping activities).
The problem with that "solution" is WoW is a faction rivalry game. If Blizzard allows PvP to be turned off completely there's no faction rivalry but in lore. Warcraft of just lore is like reading a book about faeries without a visual and/or interactive way to get to know them...or kill them if they kill your own.
Besides there's none of this fun, either...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oIu_FvPmI08
At least on a PvP realm you can kill the bots!
A more fair way to deal with the ganking menance is killing <10 level lower player offers a penalty gankers understand to their bones: do it enough there's a deleveling penalty (can get around that in killing bots). To make up for it would require killing only at level players off BGs and Arenas -- in the world itself. The wait on that to happen (as gankers are chickens) is enough to police the situation in itself. No bragging rights sitting at level 89 talking PvP trash in trade, too.
You want the community to police themselves, and a mechanic that offers consequences in making it difficult for other players to enjoy their time+dime.
Post by
Mayer
All these ideas to penalize gankers is pretty silly, de-leveling? Are you kidding me? I'm also sure many would abuse that, to lower their level on purpose.
Here's a better solution, stop playing on a PvP server or just take a break for 30 minutes, seriously you would be amazed at how fast people get bored looking for someone. (And if they don't, maybe they deserve to kill you for their effort)
Yes I will gladly kill anyone who is severely below my level and it IS just as fun, if not more, than killing players at my level.
Post by
Wowpixel
All these ideas to penalize gankers is pretty silly, de-leveling? Are you kidding me? I'm also sure many would abuse that, to lower their level on purpose.
How would they abuse something that's easily corrected (PvPing at level)?
You have to participate in ganking lower level toons to get affected. If you kill a 85 at 90, it doesn't effect you. But if you make it a purpose in the game to kill level 50s at 90 to a point where it's griefing, yeah, there needs to be consequences. It doesn't help the game nor attract players to want to play or remain to play.
See a major problem with WoW currently is retention of players. Twenty billion could've played the game, but if 1/2 mothballed their accounts, it's not helping players or Blizzard.
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Post by
lonewarrior
Yes I will gladly kill anyone who is severely below my level and it IS just as fun, if not more, than killing players at my level.
You are part of the problem
Is he? As people have said plenty of times earlier, YOU chose to play on a pvp server, now you take the consequence. Its as much pvp if i chose to roflstomp a lvl 16 or face someone my level.
First I'd like to say I've hardly ever been ganked or griefed and I play on pvp servers. Secondly, killing lowbies is to pvp as child abuse is to a fair fight. Just admit it and move on.
Again, I find it funny that players personalize or make real, events that occur in a fantasy setting.
Why is it so hard to grasp that on a pvp server ally vs horde is just another layer of danger you have "chosen" to deal with.
All these solutions just smack of a pve genre trying to push pvp into the BG's and be done with.
Seriously even on this thread there are multiple definitions of what constitute ganking.
Who and how do you define something with endless variables.
A well geared 90 can easily spend all day ganking a player just a few level below, even though it still rewards honor points.
Does three level 50 camping a level 54 tantamount to ganking?
What about a level 58 DK wearing blue Outlands gear who can easily kill a level 56 still wearing vanilla gear and this applies to every expansion. Just go into those BG brackets to experience that first hand.
Even if we used iLevel, how long before we see high level toons wearing nothing but a buccaneer hat and weapons camping lowbies.
Where do we draw the line to what is fair and by setting a line in the sand you pretty much commit everyone above that line to mass grieving.
The only difference between when I had to survive on a pvp server and now is flying in Azeroth.
So if you want to make everything invisible to players in the air until they put their feet on the ground. I could live it with it.
Even if Blizz provided free transfers, how long before we have players from pvp server clamoring for the same freebie in the opposite direction.
When you give it a clear thinking, you will realize that It will never work the way you want it to.
It will just create a whole new hornets nest, that Blizz has zero desire to deal with.
Players need to get over the emotional trauma that really is all in their head.
If players don't have the constitution to survive on a pvp server nor are they able to make the rationale decision to get off one by any means, then such players truly have issues that they should tend to before playing again.
Blizz has left it in the hands of the consumer...choose wisely.
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