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Lowbie ganking solution!
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Post by
gnomerdon
i see a red horde sash, i kill a horde wearing it. so run you kurr, tell all the others the law is coming, and hell's coming with me you hear! HELL'S COMING WITH ME!
based on how i was raised in WOW. i was killed and camped. the same pain they caused me, their offsprings will also feel.
if it's a big big problem to post on the forums because of camping, roll pve and do bgs. if i die the 2nd time, i go someplace else to quest, or i camp for 10minutes. they'll be gone. better than being camped for hours feeling hopeless.
if you want equality and ethics in a game where you specifically chosen player vs player, good luck.
it's dirty and mean. the way it should be.
Post by
584547
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
781960
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
skumbananer
Is it still considered griefing when you kill a lvl60 twink with your level 90, if that lvl60 twink started by killing your level 30-something a dozen times?
Post by
Wowpixel
Is it still considered griefing when you kill a lvl60 twink with your level 90, if that lvl60 twink started by killing your level 30-something a dozen times?
That's payback (and a dumb PvPer allowing it to happen -- i.e., not getting his 90 out to PvP your 90). His loss, your gain...and make sure to kill him a dozen times for good measure.
Post by
992790
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Wowpixel
So whats next? Everyone running around with lollipops and rainbows?
So much whining about everything being hard or unequal. Its a game you play, you die, you rev no biggie.
The problem is: Armory exists.
There's addons now to quickly mouseover to tell how much gold you made in game. Wowprogress even was advertizing how many raids a team wiped; how many attempts; who actually participated in the raid to get the loot (Blizzard would break that API ability, but not advertising how much Joe Schmoo made in his entire existence ). Won't be surprised there will be camping stat next.
Because Armory exists and has available 1000001 stats to Google even, folks will spend time raging because it's available for all to see to ridicule with. It's why other sensible MMOs allow a privacy option, because there's little excuse not to check the gear of a player in person (which essentially defines how raids are downed in WoW; R/BGs are won -- by overgearing it).
Post by
totemmunkey
I like the idea of a Bounty system. Perhaps if you kill enough low-level players, you get a "Wanted" debuff that alerts players in that zone perhaps with a /yell notifying players of the offending character. Killing the Wanted player can award you (and anyone else involved--similar to 5.2's faction-tag mechanic) with a loot item or buff that the bounty-hunter can turn in for something nice. Of course, there'd have to be something in place to prevent kill-trading between factions.
It won't stop ganking altogether but its a step, plus it encourages retaliation and world PvP.
Post by
Wowpixel
It won't stop ganking altogether but its a step, plus it encourages retaliation and world PvP.
It's the retaliation part that's missing in the equation. There's no shortage of gankers, there is a shortage of sheriffs and their posses.
With how WoW is setup, trying to get players interested to fight is the problem. On PvE realms it's difficult to find even 2s players, forget trying to find 5 to farm BGs. So if a big bad (and ugly) twink comes to faceroll, he can for hours at a time, consequence free.
There has to be the incentive there than just faction pride (too many now play Horde and don't care about Alliance to have it). With gold coming out of the pores, 10g loot isn't an incentive, either. In EvE notorious pirates can have 4 billion ISK bounties on their heads...and guess what? They'll have the same bounty on their head for months.
Revenge is the only real incentive to draw players out, or something like some loot bag.
But, too much of that no one will want to PvP anymore, as the gankers don't want to be farmed themselves (they're cowards who try to outgear or outgun players <20 levels lower than them).
Post by
ElhonnaDS
I believe that way back in Vanilla, there were penalties to honor for killing lower levels, and that as a result people would grief on low levels to try and drain honor from other players. High level players would surround themselves with a bunch of low level toons and attack people who would be gimped by not being able to use anything with a cleave or which might hit surrounding players without losing 10X the honor penalty. Instead of people complaining that high levels were standing places to get tagged so they could kill you, people complained that low levels were standing places where they could get killed and cost you honor. There is just as much room for people to abuse the system the other way as there is with the current system, and I believe that's why they discontinued it.
I imagine world PvP must be hard to balance. If you make it too restricted, people will be unable to kill enemy players in competition for nodes, rare spawns, rare pets, etc., because they're too low a level, and using PvP in the world to compete for resources is a big part of being on a PvP server. People who are getting killed by 4-5 people the same level would be unable to come back and resolve the situation on their main, even though they're grossly outnumbered and subject to the same level of grief-camping that they'd be dealing with with one high level player. People wouldn't be able to rescue friends from being camped in that manner, either. Low level quests people might need to do for rep or tokens, which can be hindered by the presence of the enemy faction, would be inaccessible to higher level players because lower level players would be untouchable. There are a lot of legitimate uses of world PvP which would be hindered by trying to impose penalties any time a high level kills a low level.
I know that the Black Portal sucks right now, and the boat in Thousand Needles, and Hellfire Peninsula. I think that the problem is coming from groups of people organizing these raids, and so the answer would be groups of people clearing these areas. In many cases, if one person is having a ganking problem in my guild, 4-5 people will go out and take care of it. Someone on their own killing lowbies for fun is usually pretty easy to deter when 5 90's come hunting for them. If one faction has taken over an area, it is no less possible for the other faction to do the exact same things in terms of making a raid and heading over there. Almost every current PvP problem has a PvP solution, if the people who are upset become as organized as the people who are doing it now, then they will be on even footing.
I'm not someone who generally enjoys world PvP- I feel like it wastes a lot of my time. However, I think it would be MORE frustrating if I couldn't fight for the nodes or other things I need while farming, or for a rare I've been camping for a couple of weeks to finish an old achievement. I'd hate to not be able to defend my low level toons if they're getting corpse camped by a group of people their own level.
I know that it seems trite to say that if you really don't want to engage in PvP as it exists in wow, then there are PvE servers, but its the truth. In addition, in most content there are choices of at least 2 zones for each leveling bracket, and then you can also level via Battlegrounds and instances, so even on a PvP server is the particular area you want is being overrun, you have several options not to deal with it. I think that the server division is fine, and to go into PvP servers and try and penalize people for killing each other is going to create just as much grief as the system as it is now. I think implementing such a penalty would be hard to balance without either making it so weak it's meaningless, or so harsh that it punished people for basic gameplay.
Post by
Adamsm
I believe that way back in Vanilla, there were penalties to honor for killing lower levels, and that as a result people would grief on low levels to try and drain honor from other players. High level players would surround themselves with a bunch of low level toons and attack people who would be gimped by not being able to use anything with a cleave or which might hit surrounding players without losing 10X the honor penalty. Instead of people complaining that high levels were standing places to get tagged so they could kill you, people complained that low levels were standing places where they could get killed and cost you honor. There is just as much room for people to abuse the system the other way as there is with the current system, and I believe that's why they discontinued it.Actually Elhonna, they had Dishonourable Kills, which happened whenever the town raids started; if you killed low level NPC's, that's what was triggering the DK's and taking Honour from you, and to be completely honest, I really wish they'd bring that aspect back to help protect some of the questing zones(Honour Hold for one). Sadly it was never on the players themselves.
Post by
ElhonnaDS
I wasn't around then, but that was how the situation had been relayed to me by someone who had bought the game day one, when we were discussing the idea of some kind of protection for low levels.
Post by
Adamsm
Oh I agree; in addition to that buff I think they should implement on griefers, I also think for every player you kill who is more then 10 levels lower then you, you should lose 10 Conquest Points, that switch to Honour Points once the CP is drained.
Post by
ElhonnaDS
Who do you agree with? I just listed all the reasons why such a buff could be used the grief high levels, and interfere with legitimate uses of world PvP. The person who told me about it said he'd played through that and bringing it back was a terrible idea. I mostly agree.(##RESPBREAK##)8##DELIM##ElhonnaDS##DELIM##
Post by
Rankkor
Who do you agree with? I just listed all the reasons why such a buff could be used the grief high levels, and interfere with legitimate uses of world PvP. The person who told me about it said he'd played through that and bringing it back was a terrible idea. I mostly agree.
it doesn't necesarily needs to be brought back if the solution is as bad as the problem.
A better solution would be diminishing returns in pvp when you gank THE SAME person multiple times. You as a lvl 90 kill a lvl 50 called pippin, you then kill him again, then again, then again. After that fourth kill, you are not able to touch this lowbie for at least a few hours and presto.
The main problem with the old "Solution" to gankers was that it penalized you if you killed lowbies, so naturally it led to lowbies punishing the higher level players. A better solution would be to simply FORBID YOU from killing the same person multiple times in a row. Once you've tormented this poor fellow enough times, just find another victim and move on.
Post by
ElhonnaDS
Who do you agree with? I just listed all the reasons why such a buff could be used the grief high levels, and interfere with legitimate uses of world PvP. The person who told me about it said he'd played through that and bringing it back was a terrible idea. I mostly agree.
it doesn't necesarily needs to be brought back if the solution is as bad as the problem.
A better solution would be diminishing returns in pvp when you gank THE SAME person multiple times. You as a lvl 90 kill a lvl 50 called pippin, you then kill him again, then again, then again. After that fourth kill, you are not able to touch this lowbie for at least a few hours and presto.
The main problem with the old "Solution" to gankers was that it penalized you if you killed lowbies, so naturally it led to lowbies punishing the higher level players. A better solution would be to simply FORBID YOU from killing the same person multiple times in a row. Once you've tormented this poor fellow enough times, just find another victim and move on.
I could see that as being a happy medium, especially if there was like a 5-10 level buffer within which it wasn't triggered, and it allowed people to be killed a number of times before it triggered in case there was a legitimate reason to do so (competition for resources, them killing lowbies, etc). Certainly much better than the debuff suggestion, and if someone is just griefing a zone, they'd only be able to kill you 4-5 times before they'd have this restriction, and then you could quest in peace for the next 4 hours, or whatever it is. I would like to add that, if this idea were implemented, they should make it so that killing someone 5-10 levels lower than the protected person would remove that immunity and make them susceptible to being killed again.
Post by
Rankkor
I would like to add that, if this idea were implemented, they should make it so that killing someone 5-10 levels lower than the protected person would remove that immunity and make them susceptible to being killed again.
I don't understand this bit.
You mean something akin to a lvl 90 killing a level 70 5 times in a row. Now level 70 can't be killed by that player. But if the level 70 then proceeds to kill a lvl 50, then he's vulnerable again?
Post by
331902
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
ElhonnaDS
I would like to add that, if this idea were implemented, they should make it so that killing someone 5-10 levels lower than the protected person would remove that immunity and make them susceptible to being killed again.
I don't understand this bit.
You mean something akin to a lvl 90 killing a level 70 5 times in a row. Now level 70 can't be killed by that player. But if the level 70 then proceeds to kill a lvl 50, then he's vulnerable again?
Right- like if the reason that the 90's came out to kill him in the first place was he was ganking, and then he gets invulnerability, and goes right back to doing it.
Post by
Interest
No the best ganking solution would be to implement a debuff on the ganker if he went after someone more then 10 levels below him; a steady ticking debuff that takes away 10% of all of his stats till it hits zero, actually giving the lowbies a real chance to fight back against these ass hats.
Ganking is not PVP, it's griefing.
I would be incredibly amused by this.
But then I realized it could either be worked around or be kinda...unfair (What if you accidentally tag or kill a lowbie? What if swarms of lowbies start going everywhere flagged just to grief people?).
<snip>
Exactly this, pretty much. Good ol' Dishonorable Kills and all that.
A better solution would be diminishing returns in pvp when you gank THE SAME person multiple times. You as a lvl 90 kill a lvl 50 called pippin, you then kill him again, then again, then again. After that fourth kill, you are not able to touch this lowbie for at least a few hours and presto.
I would go with something like this. It was the same idea that popped up in my head as I was going through the thread.
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