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New Realm types?
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Post by
Lexxor84
It won't happen until at least Blizzard has put out the last boss in the last expansion, because they wouldn't want to take the risk of being embarrassed by the numbers of people using these servers.I still really doubt the numbers would be as high people think they would be for Legacy servers; sure when they first come out you'd see a massive increase there...but then it would steadily peter out as people get slapped in the face of the reality of those times.
Well this might be true but i still think it would be a viable idea,
Obviously there wouldn't be as many different Legacy servers as there are real ones so the people that actually would have interest in playing on legacy servers would be alot more concentrated. I have no idea how many would be suitable but wouldnt require many servers at all im guessing.
Have spoken to quite alot of people about this thing and 80% of them are quite positive to the idea. It gets rid of the people who whines about this and that being so much better, And honestly i dont get the massive rage they/we get because we actually prefered BC, Vanilla or whatever Expansion. IF we felt that wow was more enjoyable during those days thats our honest opinion. Why are you getting upset about it? Did you develop the other expansions?
Surely the Legacy servers would die in one way or another in the end because people will eventually have done EVERYTHING, But that will in all honesty take quite a while.
I know this is just a dream that will 99.999999% never be a reality but i for one would love it!
And slapped in the face of the reality? Im well aware of all the things that drove me mad in the previous expansions but as im doing with MoP im taking the bad WITH the good stuff...
Post by
Adamsm
And slapped in the face of the reality? Im well aware of all the things that drove me mad in the previous expansions but as im doing with MoP im taking the bad WITH the good stuff...I'm talking about the Nostalgia fans who state that 'this expansion was the best because it didn't have this'; completely forgetting about the horrible things of those expansions that made them hell on a large majority of the player base.
As I've said, I want Blizzard to come out with these, just so that the Nostalgia crowd will finally shut the hell up about how WoW was better back in their days...when in reality, there has always been the good and the bad in every expansion.
Post by
1078680
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Azrile
i kind of want blizzard too make these vanilla/BC/wrath and cata servers like they were back then in their final patch and see how long those realms would have a sustainable population.
since my opion is that it wont work at all, but since there isnt a way too prove me wrong (or right). i had liked too see these types of realms.
as far CRZ goes, im rather indifferent about those zones except the fact they make me lag. but for some reason all out-door zones gave me more lagspikes then being in a very busy orgrimmar zone (like around grammosh hold or the pandaria portal) which is weird. since it used to be always the other way around for me since i started playing in BC.
Agree totally. That is one of the major problems with people like the OP... they see things exactly how they want them, then assume everyone else who talks about classic servers wants to use the exact same rules.
Take for instance dual-specs. I bet you half the people who want a lvl 60 capped server, would want dual specs. How about mount speeds? Again, half the people who want a vanilla server will want want dual specs, and half of those would want the new mount speeds and access levels. You want every enchanter to have to run a certain dungeon to get past 200 skill? You want Moonkin to have to melee to regain mana? For every Yes that you say, there will be a ton of ´vanilla fans´that say no.
When you go through the list of all the major improvements that have been made to the game, it splinters all of the ´classic´ fans into millions of pieces, and NONE of them would be happy with YOUR version of what a classic server should be.
People drastically underestimate how many quality of life changes have been made to the game, and it would be impossible to go back to vanilla without those changes. Not even from a technical standpoint, just from a fan standpoint.. players would just want them all back.
Post by
lonewarrior
@Adamsm
You can go back on a personal level and compare yesterday to today and say the game is better.
But you can't speak for all...I can find you plenty of players who loved that feeling of achievement to overcome such obstacles even beyond the gear acquisition. And yet...said obstacles still exist; they didn't just suddenly vanish over night. If they did, a lot more people would be clearing the heroic modes of Pandaria.
Just look at LFR...there is no achievement or glory to share, you either get a drop you can use or read people whine about another useless bag of 28.5 gold.Unless you are a person who just enjoys the fact they can raid as they please no matter what their personal schedule is like.
What I feel is missing from the game is the grandeur it once possessed.Yes, because the grandeur of being in one spot for 8 hours, grinding one specific mob for that one specific piece of resist gear was so good...or running endless Karazhan's week after week as the guild where you were with people you love couldn't get past Gruuls and Mags.
Just look at epics for an example. How in Vanilla and TBC they were a thing to marvel at when someone wore a piece, today they are a common as greens.So they say, yet my new Monk is still in a combination of Heroic Blues, quest greens and a few Epic pieces.
Yes the progression path was filled with obstacles, some unnecessarily, but well oiled guilds overcame them. And yet, those same obstacles still exist; refer to above.
The trouble is you tend to compare game play pace as the measurement of being better or not.
How quickly or how easy a player can grind through contents should not be the mark of quality.
Unless of course you fall into the category of people who think speed chess is better then normal chess. I don't...however, where is the enjoyment of grinding one set of raids for an entire expansion? Of watching as heroic groups still failed to clear Shattered Halls, Black Morass, the Arcatraz. Of seeing guilds fall apart and sunder as they are stuck on gating? The simple fact is though, I am enjoying MoP more then any other expansion; I love where the game is going.
I think Ciderhelm(if you raided in the past you most likely viewed his tankspot videos) put it best
when he left, that WoW went from being a game, to being a toy.
Read his views if anyone is interested
http://www.tankspot.com/category.php?tag=ciderhelm
Meh.
From top to bottom...
1.)The problem in MoP and you are starting to see the effects of it from threads on the main server is that LFR is becoming the threshold for the majority of players, is the difference between it and norm/heroic are nominal enough for players not to even put in the time, money and effort to clear them.
2.) When was it impossible to find a guild that suite a particular raiding style? I myself ran a guild with the simple raiding philosophy "if you're on, you're in"
3.) Monday morning quarterbacking...back then it was what it was...I must conclude you love the pain to have endured such a horrid experience.
4.) I have LFR on farm and only three pieces not epic. I only made the head piece from engineering, no valor or AH purchased pieces. I enjoy earning my enjoy through battle. I can't answer why your lagging so far behind.
5.) You want to compare TBC hurdles to MoP hurdles for contents/gear progression?
6.) MoP aside since we both agree...guilds also survived through it all. I knew plenty that did. Even when they didn't, the players of quality were still a known quantity and new guilds always reformed.
The thing is...as much as you try to shatter the illusion of the past..the numbers don't back you up.
Even with the progression difficulties and the numbers stating that only approx 20% of the pop ever saw endgame, the WoW population expanded through each quarter of those early expansion.
Where is the dividing line...Ulduar/TOC(LFD, progression reset).
The two halves of the WoW genre. The subs never expanded again. Way too sharp of a curve to explain it away as just gaming exhaustion.
The seed was planted then for the game and the community(which is just as much a part of the game as the mechanics themselves) as it was at the end of Cata.
Which is what Ciderhelm was pointing out. Blizz was cultivating a completely different genre of WoW players, who saw the game as just a toy instead of an endeavor.
Which is why I said to the OP...it would never work. Those players of yesterday are gone.
The pop. turned over. You have a remnant scattered about, but not enough to sustain the expense of such servers.
Those types server would be a curiosity at best, like making a toon to see what Goldshire on Moonguard is all about.
As I said before the game should have evolved along a linear path. But it didn't.
Perhaps MoP is the start of the pendulum finally settling in the middle.
Post by
432158
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Adamsm
Blizz was cultivating a completely different genre of WoW players, who saw the game as just a toy instead of an endeavor. Shenanigans; that group has existed since the game started.
Post by
lonewarrior
Just look at epics for an example. How in Vanilla and TBC they were a thing to marvel at when someone wore a piece, today they are a common as greens.You assume "epic" means "totally hard to acquire", while it always meant "raid loot" - raids got more accessible, and so got epics.
I agree that epics apart from that raid loot became a bit too common, but in the end, it's just the color of the item name - since 4.0, stats are dependent on itemlevel alone, the quality does not matter.
I wouldn't mind if loot from dungeons added later in the expansion had only blue loot, or if valor gear that is demoted to JP was turned blue, but in the end, it doesn't really matter.
What sets apart the successful players these days is the raw itemlevel of their gear, the "Heroic/Elite" tags, and that they can use this highlevel gear (or challenge mode rewards) as their outfit, if they choose so.
If a person paid a thousand dollars for front row seats and found out the guy 10 rows behind him paid only a hundred dollars, what do you think would be the typical reaction of most people who went to that event again.
That's the trouble at the moment in MoP...LFR.
It represents those sweet 100 dollar seats that have players skipping the other modes. They've seen the fight and have their epics, they don't need to pay $1000 for a nominal better experience.
Again go to the main forum. It's beginning, threads about 90's disappearing, people who are having trouble trying to run consistent guild runs.
It's not the item level that's satiating the players. Some dailies/valor, some AH purchasing/crafting and a few easy LFR drops and people are geared in epic.
This is going to be a common trend with each patch. LFR being the threshold for many players.
Guilds are going to have a tough time recruiting for any longevity.
A sign of things to come, because epics have become so common.
Start dropping legendary's in Heroic and then see what the community response will be...food for thought.
Post by
Adamsm
Start dropping legendary's in Heroic and then see what the community response will be...food for thought.
Same as what it always is when a Legendary anything is released: Hardcores will whine about 'casuals' getting it, casuals will whine about not being able to get it, and those who just enjoy the game will smile, nod and possibly get it at some point as long as they are in a semi-good natured guild and not one that is full of ass hats.
Post by
292411
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Nulgar
It represents those sweet 100 dollar seats that have players skipping the other modes. They've seen the fight and have their epics, they don't need to pay $1000 for a nominal better experience.Take a look at price ranges for theater tickets, the same play, but different seats. Not your suggested 10:1 ratio, but still a hefty difference.
Of course the actual experience of the more expensive seats isn't as much better as the price ratio would suggest, but - not that I really want to compare hardcore raiders to snobbish theater guests - it's about status.
Post by
1076327
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Azrile
The devs have already said it will never happen,and could never happen because they DO NOT have some box with the old code in it. There isn´t a ´classic´ button they can push and make the game go back to like it was in 2005. In order to make a classic server, they would have to go in an alter every little bit of the code, every spell, talent trees, the maps etc from the current code..
Just take flight paths for example. They have no way of knowing right now, which flightpaths were there originally... they can´t just push a button and have all the new flightpaths disappear, and have all the old ones jump to their original positions. Same with graveyards.. They would have to manually go in and move graveyards and flightpaths... They would have to interview people and check sites like this one to even remember what all the spells were like, and then go in and program them all back to the way they were.
Just way too much work to test a theory that most of us think would fail anyway.
Post by
lonewarrior
It represents those sweet 100 dollar seats that have players skipping the other modes. They've seen the fight and have their epics, they don't need to pay $1000 for a nominal better experience.Take a look at price ranges for theater tickets, the same play, but different seats. Not your suggested 10:1 ratio, but still a hefty difference.
Of course the actual experience of the more expensive seats isn't as much better as the price ratio would suggest, but - not that I really want to compare hardcore raiders to snobbish theater guests - it's about status.
My point was, that LFR is so good for what it brings to the game, that the difference from it and norm/hardcore doesn't justifying enough for the majority of casual players to put in an effort into those endeavors.
The boss fights just require tighter team effort and the gear are just higher ilevel.
The caveat has always been the exclusiveness of the gear.
Just look at all the whining we saw about loot drop during the intial LFR runs that was "suppose" to be just an opportunity to see endgame content fights. Players wanted the gear.
Add to it this thread...a 188 page love affair with LFR...labeled "I will never go back to normal raiding again"
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/3657613297
Transmog...another great idea...why do people want to go back and acquire gear from yesterday's dungeons.
Why does everyone want those TBC pieces. That unique look.
Again it comes back to epics being the paramount of achievement. Not there ilevels.
As long as it is considered endgame and it all looks the same, players are for the most part satisfied.
You don't even have the distinction between 10/25 man gear anymore.
Which is why I said, they need to up the caveat for running normal/heroic or they will eventually go the way of the Dodo.
If the bosses drop different looking legendary's in heroic, player would seek them out.
Because there is a distinction to them, you save normal runs as well since players need to go through it to get to heroic.
I'm not even opposed to a 3 tier LFR modes. The game is what is...LFR is the future.
Whether run through guild or random's, they would be the same fight.
If you think it's just a color, then your not grasping the motivation of players in this game.
I managed raiders for years, I have a feel for what motivates them.
Back to my example..take those $1000 seats and throw in back stage passes, pictures with the band and a party with them afterwards and now you have a reason to work overtime to buy those tickets.
peace!
Post by
292411
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Lunarine
Merging medium/low population realms sounds feasible. But what about those high populated realms with huge faction imbalance then? Eg; Thrall, Area52, Illidan.
Post by
lonewarrior
The devs have already said it will never happen,and could never happen because they DO NOT have some box with the old code in it. There isn´t a ´classic´ button they can push and make the game go back to like it was in 2005. In order to make a classic server, they would have to go in an alter every little bit of the code, every spell, talent trees, the maps etc from the current code..
Just take flight paths for example. They have no way of knowing right now, which flightpaths were there originally... they can´t just push a button and have all the new flightpaths disappear, and have all the old ones jump to their original positions. Same with graveyards.. They would have to manually go in and move graveyards and flightpaths... They would have to interview people and check sites like this one to even remember what all the spells were like, and then go in and program them all back to the way they were.
Just way too much work to test a theory that most of us think would fail anyway.
I still have my original Vanilla CD.
If I had a new computer and download the game from that CD without any patching updates, I would have the original Vanilla version.
Post by
Adamsm
I still have my original Vanilla CD.
If I had a new computer and download the game from that CD without any patching updates, I would have the original Vanilla version.
Um....no, no you wouldn't.
Post by
lonewarrior
I still have my original Vanilla CD.
If I had a new computer and download the game from that CD without any patching updates, I would have the original Vanilla version.
Um....no, no you wouldn't.
Oh you have to do better then that.
Explain why my original vanilla CD wouldn't contain the old Azeroth and version of the game.
Post by
ElhonnaDS
I still have my original Vanilla CD.
If I had a new computer and download the game from that CD without any patching updates, I would have the original Vanilla version.
Um....no, no you wouldn't.
Oh you have to do better then that.
Explain why my original vanilla CD wouldn't contain the old Azeroth and version of the game.
Because the vast majority of the content of the game isn't stored clientside- it's stored serverside. You would have the vanilla version of the client program, but it wouldn't include any of the creatures, any of the items, any of the quests, or any of the character information. It wouldn't include the world itself. The client program pulls all of that information from the server, and while it will cache some of this information after you have encountered it in the game, it wouldn't be enough of it to actually reconstruct the game without the server, and it wouldn't happen unless you were connected to a live version of the server type you wanted.
A similar example would be if you found an old demo disc of AOL from 1993, and loaded it onto your computer. The entire AOL mail server isn't on that disc, and simply having it wouldn't let you recreate the server at your home for other people to use who didn't like the current version of AOL mail. All it contains is the programming to allow your computer to interact with their mail server and display the information contained there. If all of the AOL servers are running the 2013 version of AOL, then there is no 1993 version of the program fo you to go out and connect to.(##RESPBREAK##)8##DELIM##ElhonnaDS##DELIM##
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