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Most Annoying Character in Fiction?
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Post by
Gone
Having Ozai pay attention to you isn't really a
good
thing, considering how he does not hesitate to manipulate both of his childrens' emotions.
The point is though that she had her fathers love, her grandfather favored her too and probably everybody else except her mother. It's only natural for Iroh to pay more attention to Zuko because he was the one being neglected. It's not about who wound up becoming a better person in the end, tbh Zuko only started to become a better person after traveling and seeing the world and the effect that the war had on people.
Ozai paid more attention to Azula because in his mind she was the one most like him, and Zuko was the emo pussy. Zuko had the least love, so Iroh gave him more of it. I still think he tried with Azula, I mean he sent her that doll... Plus when Zuko wanted Iroh to teach him lightning his first thought was "now I know what you're gonna say, we're family and we should be getting along". This tells me that in the past Iroh at least made an attempt to get them to connect with each other.
EDIT: Zuko was also kind of a surrogate son to Iroh after his own child died.
Post by
Patty
She didn't have Ozai's love at all. You seem to have completely misinterpreted his character. Azula's mental breakdown shows how fearful she is of no longer being good enough, of being cast aside like Zuko. If Ozai loved her, she wouldn't feel that way. Zuko had more love, seeing as Ursa doted on him so much. Azula was younger and more vulnerable to manipulation than Zuko was, and from what we've seen, Iroh wasn't there for her when Ursa left.
Post by
Gone
She didn't have Ozai's love at all.
When they were kids her father was constantly praising her and calling her a progeny, even Zuko said later that their father always loved Azula but not him. Maybe Ozaid didn't love her in the traditional sense, but he did show her paternal love that he denied Zuko.
Zuko had more love, seeing as Ursa doted on him so much.
The point of that flashback was that Azula had their father, grandfather, friends, all sorts of people paying attention to her, and the only person Zuko had was their mother, and then he was alone after she left. The title of the episode was in fact "Zuko Alone" IIRC
Azula was younger and more vulnerable to manipulation than Zuko was
I gotta call bull%^&* on that one, Azula was way stronger than Zuko as a kid, she had one breakdown after all those years compared to like half a dozen that Zuko had. We didn't find out until the very end how much she was craving her parents love, Zuko had these whiny little "love me daddy" moments every other episode. Idk how you can say with a strait face that Azula is more susceptible to emotional manipulation, she keeps all her emotions bottled down where nobody can reach them, Hell she usually does the manipulating...
Iroh wasn't there for her when Ursa left.
We don't know what happened after Ursa left. And if you were Iroh who would you make an extra effort for, the daughter who was favored by the now only parent, who had a group of friends always surrounding her and doing her bidding? Or the son who had no friends, is hated by the father and sister, and now has no mother either?
Besides you have to remember that Iroh just lost his son and he looked at Zuko like a surrogate. In his situation, losing his son, his father, his birthright, and being disgraced by his nation, he didn't really have any responsibility to either of them. But if he only had enough left in him to help one, of course it should have been Zuko, because he was the one who didn't have anybody.
Post by
MyTie
Eustice from Narnia.
Post by
Patty
She didn't have Ozai's love at all.
When they were kids her father was constantly praising her and calling her a progeny, even Zuko said later that their father always loved Azula but not him. Maybe Ozaid didn't love her in the traditional sense, but he did show her paternal love that he denied Zuko.That's not love - that's appreciating her talents. Azula is such a perfectionist because her firebending is the only thing that has ever been recognised and praised as useful. That's not to say "love", because it was
conditional
on Ozai's part, which true parental love is categorically
not
.
Zuko had more love, seeing as Ursa doted on him so much.
The point of that flashback was that Azula had their father, grandfather, friends, all sorts of people paying attention to her, and the only person Zuko had was their mother, and then he was alone after she left. The title of the episode was in fact "Zuko Alone" IIRCYes, he was on his own after she left. But Ursa had much more influence on Zuko than Azula. Saying "what is wrong with that child?" while Azula is still in earshot is a very bad ideaTM likely to draw her closer to her father, who actually gives her some praise. She should have made more of an effort to mitigate Ozai's abusive influences on both of her children, rather than just one of them.
Azula was younger and more vulnerable to manipulation than Zuko was
I gotta call bull%^&* on that one, Azula was way stronger than Zuko as a kid, she had one breakdown after all those years compared to like half a dozen that Zuko had. We didn't find out until the very end how much she was craving her parents love, Zuko had these whiny little "love me daddy" moments every other episode. Idk how you can say with a strait face that Azula is more susceptible to emotional manipulation, she keeps all her emotions bottled down where nobody can reach them, Hell she usually does the manipulating...Why are her emotions suppressed? Oh, yeah, out of her absolute fear of becoming Zuko 2.0. Zuko didn't have breakdowns so much as he was more superficially emotional. All that shows is how both kids acted differently in response to their neglect.
Iroh wasn't there for her when Ursa left.
We don't know what happened after Ursa left. And if you were Iroh who would you make an extra effort for, the daughter who was favored by the now only parent, who had a group of friends always surrounding her and doing her bidding? Or the son who had no friends, is hated by the father and sister, and now has no mother either?
Besides you have to remember that Iroh just lost his son and he looked at Zuko like a surrogate. In his situation, losing his son, his father, his birthright, and being disgraced by his nation, he didn't really have any responsibility to either of them. But if he only had enough left in him to help one, of course it should have been Zuko, because he was the one who didn't have anybody.
Just because Azula had more people paying attention to her does not mean that she truly had anybody she could rely on.
Her father was only interested in how useful she could be, Mai was always interested in Zuko, and I doubt she trusted Ty Lee to keep her mouth shut - plus she thinks of her as a bit of a bimbo. This was pretty much how all of Azula's childhood was. She was, where it matters, just as alone as Zuko.
Post by
Skreeran
Oh, I completely forgot Lysa Tully and her spawn. That pair, somehow, is even
worse
than Sansa.
Post by
Gone
That's not love - that's appreciating her talents. Azula is such a perfectionist because her firebending is the only thing that has ever been recognised and praised as useful. That's not to say "love", because it was conditional on Ozai's part, which true parental love is categorically not.
Yes, he was on his own after she left. But Ursa had much more influence on Zuko than Azula. Saying "what is wrong with that child?" while Azula is still in earshot is a very bad ideaTM likely to draw her closer to her father, who actually gives her some praise. She should have made more of an effort to mitigate Ozai's abusive influences on both of her children, rather than just one of them.
You're trying to turn Azula into something she's not. Kids grow up fast in the Avatar world, and she was already kind of a psycho when she was a kid, so her mother saying "whats wrong with that child" was just a parent voicing a very legitimate concern.
And maybe Ozai wasn't capable of "love" in the paternal sense, but whatever he was capable of she got, and Zuko didn't. He complimented her, and gave her approval and clearly favored her. the point is that she got more out of him than Zuko did, the fact that he had it worse between the two of them isn't even debatable.
Why are her emotions suppressed? Oh, yeah, out of her absolute fear of becoming Zuko 2.0. Zuko didn't have breakdowns so much as he was more superficially emotional. All that shows is how both kids acted differently in response to their neglect.
She never showed any fear of becoming like Zuko before then, probably because she knew she was pretty much better than him in just about every respect that mattered to their father. She had her breakdown because her friends betrayed her, and that made her get all paranoid and stopped trusting people. That's why she started banishing everybody around her as well.
Just because Azula had more people paying attention to her does not mean that she truly had anybody she could rely on. Her father was only interested in how useful she could be, Mai was always interested in Zuko, and I doubt she trusted Ty Lee to keep her mouth shut - plus she thinks of her as a bit of a bimbo. This was pretty much how all of Azula's childhood was. She was, where it matters, just as alone as Zuko.
First of all that's a lot of assumptions. And even if she was this sad lonely little girl that you're trying to make her out to be, how was anybody from the outside supposed to know that? If Iroh looked at the two children he would see one surrounded by friends with plenty of attention from the one parent, who exhumed plenty of confidence. Then the other was this sad little emo that didn't have anybody.
And I still don't know what makes you think Iroh never made an effort with her. Based on the characters I'm sure he did, and she probably just told him to eff off.
Post by
KingdomKnight
Lenalee, and Inoue Orihime. Whiny little girls who had power but couldn't use it properly.
Peggy Hill from King of the Hill, and Daisy from Bones. Too overconfident.
Uchiha Sasuke. All of the above. Actually, all the Uchiha's but Itachi are obnoxious.
Garash Hellscream. Basically George Bush Jr, with an Axe.
Jaina Proudmoore. Just don't like her.
Post by
134377
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Gone
@ KingdomKnight
I actually like Peggy, she is annoying/overconfident, but the character is just so damn funny!(##RESPBREAK##)16##DELIM##asakawa##DELIM##
Post by
134377
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Patty
Oh, I completely forgot Lysa Tully and her spawn. That pair, somehow, is even
worse
than Sansa.
Thought this sums up my feelings quite well.
@Ryja, you're right about a legitimate concern. But I don't see Ursa then trying to make Azula understand, and saying that
in front of Azula
is just going to detach her further from her daughter. Ursa doesn't make any efforts to then explain why what she did was wrong. She just passively observes that and leaves it. Great parenting.
Also let me refer to Zuko receiving more of Ursa's unconditional love and Azula receiving more of Ozai's conditional praise. The precedent for her breakdown and one of her establishing moments is that "almost isn't good enough". Why else would she be a neurotic perfectionist, knowing what we know about the Fire dynasty, unless it had something to do with the way Ozai raised and treated his children? I'm not trying to make a point that Azula has more of a sob-story than Zuko, or vice-versa, because they
both had equally bad childhoods
in different ways. What part of that is so difficult to comprehend? Also you know how people with low self-esteem sometimes project their "confidence" in an attempt to look stronger than they really are and ward off being victimised? Yeah, same thing with Azula.
Post by
OverZealous
Eustice from Narnia.
I had forgotten all about Eustice. You're right, he is very easy to dislike.
Post by
446469
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
ElhonnaDS
Eustice from Narnia.
I had forgotten all about Eustice. You're right, he is very easy to dislike.
At least he eventually mends his ways, and joins the ranks of decent human beings.
Post by
Monday
Frodo. Samwise is a much better character, imo.
Post by
HiVolt
Frodo. Samwise is a much better character, imo.
Agreed. In fact, in my opinion, Merry and Pippin are better characters than Frodo as well.
Post by
OverZealous
Eustice from Narnia.
I had forgotten all about Eustice. You're right, he is very easy to dislike.
At least he eventually mends his ways, and joins the ranks of decent human beings.
Eventually
. Until that point, I loved the White Witch in comparison.
Post by
Gone
Frodo. Samwise is a much better character, imo.
IMO Bilbo is the best of Hobbits. I was always disappointed with how he was portrayed (at least in the movie) like this embittered old man. Anybody who reads the Hobbit knows Bilbo had the biggest heart of any character Tolkien ever wrote.
And
he let go of the ring after having it much longer than Frodo...
Also let me refer to Zuko receiving more of Ursa's unconditional love and Azula receiving more of Ozai's conditional praise. The precedent for her breakdown and one of her establishing moments is that "almost isn't good enough". Why else would she be a neurotic perfectionist, knowing what we know about the Fire dynasty, unless it had something to do with the way Ozai raised and treated his children? I'm not trying to make a point that Azula has more of a sob-story than Zuko, or vice-versa, because they
both had equally bad childhoods
in different ways.
What part of that is so difficult to comprehend?
Also you know how people with low self-esteem sometimes project their "confidence" in an attempt to look stronger than they really are and ward off being victimised? Yeah, same thing with Azula.
I comprehend what you're saying, I just don't agree. I don't think they had equally bad childhoods at all, not even close. Ozai gave Azula conditional praise, but it's not like she ever actually failed to meet those conditions, and that's still better than the actual revulsion he gave to Zuko. If Azula was mistreated by their father, it's in the same sense that somebody like Draco Malfoy was, in the sense that they were spoiled and raised with horrible values to the point where they become a mirror of the parent, and evil person.
Azula might not have gotten what most kids need, but she got what she wanted, namely power and fear. Remember this is not a normal child here, IMO she wanted things like that more than the traditional type of love that Zuko craved.
And I still fail to see how Iroh is to blame for any of that...
I never actually read the first Avatar comic, but I'm going to be picking the next one. It's apparently going to deal with Zukos mother and Azula will be coming back as well. I always wanted to know what happened to her after the series ended. As awesome a villain as she was, I would like to see her redeemed in some way.
Post by
557473
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
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