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Resurrecting the heirloom shield topic
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Post by
BlackMonarch
Someone necroposted in an outdated thread about heirloom shields and it got locked before I could throw my two cents in. Thus, here I am.
I, for one, fully support the notion of heirloom shields. I have 7 characters on Blackwater Raiders and another 7 on Stormscale. Of those 7, one is a Protection Warrior, one is a Protection Paladin, and one is a shaman (again, this is per realm, so it's two of each, total). For those who suck at math, this means that
43% of my characters use shields
. And you know what else? There's a severe lack of good shields out there, at least when you're leveling as Horde. Deathguard Buckler, Reaper's Buckler, Blood Offering Platter, Shield of Azsharan Conquest, Deathgate Shield, etc. look like unmitigated ass. That Blood Elf shield looks good but doesn't last long. Monstrous Shield is pretty wicked-looking, and I guess Shield of Uncurbed Appetite doesn't look too bad on my electric cows, but then there aren't any shields until what, Plague Cauldron Lid for the casters and Light's Shield for the tanks? What the hell am I supposed to use until then?
Seeing as how Blizz finally decided to show tanks some love with the Burnished Heirlooms of Might, Ripped Sandstorm Cloak, and Bloodsoaked Skullforge Reaver, I think an heirloom shield is entirely appropriate.
Post by
161859
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Post by
678294
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Magician22773
Why stop at shields?
100% of my toons wear gloves and bracers. Why no heirlooms for these slots?
Personally, heirloom gear has gotten out of hand. I was fine with a few slots, but now, the mentality is, it has to be an heirloom in every slot, or it is sub standard.
I actually hate leveling with heirlooms, but I do it anyway. I am not going to gimp myself just on principle, but I liked getting upgrades to gear while leveling, and 'looms killed that. Combined with the goodie bag gear, running a dungeon is just a means to an end now, with the whole gear upgrade issue removed.
Post by
331902
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
BlackMonarch
Why stop at shields?
100% of my toons wear gloves and bracers. Why no heirlooms for these slots?
Probably because they're like 10 times as common as shields, so you'll always have ones appropriate for your level?
Also, adding those would mean adding int cloth gloves and bracers, int leather gloves and bracers, agi leather gloves and bracers, int mail gloves and bracers, agi mail gloves and bracers, str plate gloves and bracers, int plate... well, let's just say a lot of new items, whereas heirloom off-hands would consist of not more than 3 items (str shield for tanks, int shield for shamans, and int orb for cloth classes). And heirloom shields would encourage more tanks to appear in the dungeon/raid queues, whereas all those gloves and bracers wouldn't.
But yeah, aside from all that, I eagerly anticipate the day when I'll be able to wear heirlooms in every single slot LIKE A BOSS.
Post by
Nulgar
Why stop at shields? Because shields/offhands are the equivalent of the offhand weapon for casters. There's the
mace
for most casters, but no option for the offhand. Also missing: a Strength-based 1h.
Post by
612548
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Eccentrica
A line simply had to be drawn somewhere. I personally think we have more than enough already, but I wouldn't refuse to purchase a shield were it to be introduced.
Post by
749876
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
BlackMonarch
In my opinion, heirloom shields are a "want vs need" item.
As opposed to all those
other
heirlooms, without which nobody could play the game?
Post by
ElhonnaDS
So the logic is because they have given us nice things we want but don't need, they need to give us all the nice things we want now? Because that's the logic behind your response to him. I don't think he was saying he needs the other heirlooms- he was saying he would like them, but he doesn't feel like anything is missing from the game without them.
Heirlooms are both a nice bonus and a bit of a drag at the same time. It's nice that they speed up leveling for your 4th, 5th, 6th toons. It's nice that when you RAF someone and are leaping ahead by 3-5 levels per instance in Vanilla, you don't have to worry about all the gear you're missing. But I do have to say that there's a little bit less to the leveling experience when you're never upgrading half your equipment slots. There's a lot less interest in what the bosses are dropping, and no "Yes" feeling when a really nice weapon or helm comes up.
I think the chest, the shoulders and the weapon were fine, and the trinkets too since you almost never find them at low levels. I think that the helms and cloaks felt like a little bit of overkill, but there are still enough slots to upgrade that using them doesn't kill the gearing aspect of the leveling process entirely. I think if they keep adding new slots, though, it's going to take a lot of fun out of the alt-leveling process.
If they add more, I will probably use them just because it's easier, but if they don't add any more, I'm completely fine with it. From a design standpoint, if they want to add more they should probably create level 80-90 versions of some of the ones that stop at 80, rather than take over new gear slots.
Post by
Adamsm
In my opinion, heirloom shields are a "want vs need" item.
As opposed to all those
other
heirlooms, without which nobody could play the game?
It's easily possible to play without heirlooms now a day; the guild exp perk lets you go just as fast.
Post by
BlackMonarch
So the logic is because they have given us nice things we want but don't need, they need to give us all the nice things we want now? Because that's the logic behind your response to him
No, the logic I'm using is "As I'm questing in the Eastern Kingdoms, armor pieces are as common as junk mail, but there are absolutely no tanking shields to be found in Arathi, Hinterlands, or Western Plaguelands, and it's kind of ridiculous to cruise around a 40-45 zone with mostly level-appropriate gear except for this stupid Monstrous Shield that I got twenty goddamn levels ago and still haven't found a replacement for. Also, random dungeon finder needs more tanks"
The logic behind my response to him is that his argument was crap.
Post by
Adamsm
Since you level so fast that you get rid of gear anyways, it's not that huge of a deal.
Post by
ElhonnaDS
So the logic is because they have given us nice things we want but don't need, they need to give us all the nice things we want now? Because that's the logic behind your response to him
No, the logic I'm using is "As I'm questing in the Eastern Kingdoms, armor pieces are as common as junk mail, but there are absolutely no tanking shields to be found in Arathi, Hinterlands, or Western Plaguelands, and it's kind of ridiculous to cruise around a 40-45 zone with mostly level-appropriate gear except for this stupid Monstrous Shield that I got twenty goddamn levels ago and still haven't found a replacement for. Also, random dungeon finder needs more tanks"
The logic behind my response to him is that his argument was crap.
Here
is a list of 54 horde-available shields levels 35-45. There are quite a number of them that drop from instances that you can queue for without leaving your leveling area. The argument that they aren't available isn't valid. The truth is that you can click the green button to run instances for better gear than what drops from quests. You just have to actually put a little effort into getting a shield if you want one.
The truth of your argument isn't that you can't get a shield. It's that you can't get a shield without running dungeons because of the zones you choose to level in. However, if you wanted to change continents, you could have a shield. If you'd put some time in on LFG, you'd have a shield. If you went and got one from the AH (like one of those 30 greens on that list) you'd have a shield. Your argument is that you can't get a shield with minimal effort.
For most of us, that makes a shield nice, but not needed. Hence Xedosz's very valid opinion which seems to have enraged you. Most of us think that something requiring some effort (and running vanilla dungeons- especially with an instant queue you get as a tank, is really minimal) is fine. Most people leveled several alts before the word heirloom ever existed in WoW. Most people saved for things like flying and riding. Most people understand that even during leveling, sometimes you have to actually try to get something rather than walk the path of least resistance and have it all handed to you.
It is completely a valid opinion to say "I want an heirloom shield." It's completely a valid opinion to say, "It would be nice, but I don't need it." It is a completely valid opinion to say, "I think heirlooms take a lot of the fun out of leveling and we have enough as is." And it's completely valid to have reasons you believe any of the 3 and debate them. But you're so infuriated by a comment that was really more on your side than against, that I can't help but wonder what you were thinking when you started this part of the exchange. You picked probably the least offensive response on the "We don't need it," side to get snide about. It's kind of funny.
I know you've probably only been playing about 6 months (per your sign up date), so you don't remember a time before heirlooms, or when many things were more expensive, or questing flows were much less smooth. And I'm not going to go on a "back in my day," speech. But the game you're experiencing now goes much much faster than it used to, and leveling has a lot more utilities to make it convenient. For those of us who have been around a while, we don't see the need for more. Xedosz said it politely, now I'll be more blunt.
If you are not lazy, you can get a shield pretty easily. If you do a little searching online, you would know that. If you want it handed to you, then you're entitled to that belief. But if your argument is that you can't get one, it's patently false and people will call you on it. Just be honest- I want an heirloom shield because I don't think I should have to put any effort at all into getting gear for an alt. And when someone tells you politely that they'd have liked it, but it didn't hinder them not to have it the THREE TIMES THEY DID EXACTLY WHAT YOU'RE COMPLAINING ABOUT NOT BEING ABLE TO DO, you might want to just let them say their piece without being snide, because the only one who looked unreasonable in that exchange was you.
But you said it yourself- you want heirlooms in every single slot. You don't want to have to try for anything.
EDIT: Also, perhaps random dungeon finder needs more tanks because all the tanks are questing in Eastern Kingdoms rather than running dungeons for their shields?
Post by
BlackMonarch
Elhonna, I'm going to have to stop you right there, because your post is full of all kinds of fail.
The argument that they aren't available isn't valid. The truth is that you can click the green button to run instances for better gear than what drops from quests.
Yes, and Shield Against the Evil Presence looks fabulous on my alts who actually level via dungeons. Black Monarch, however, levels via questing, and you need to keep in mind that not all WoW players tend to play well with others. And some realms are just plain dead.
You just have to actually put a little effort into getting a shield if you want one.
Effort? I completed 55 profession quests and God knows how many dailies (missed a few because of lag and disconnects) and turned in 2,750 grisly trophies across 2 realms during the most recent DMF. Back off about this "effort" nonsense.
The truth of your argument isn't that you can't get a shield. It's that you can't get a shield without running dungeons because of the zones you choose to level in. However, if you wanted to change continents, you could have a shield. If you'd put some time in on LFG, you'd have a shield. If you went and got one from the AH (like one of those 30 greens on that list) you'd have a shield. Your argument is that you can't get a shield with minimal effort.
Your argument is that getting an heirloom requires less effort than running a single dungeon? Really? You think it's easier to
accumulate 110 DMF tickets or 2,175 honor/justice points
than to run a single dungeon? You think it's easier to accumulate 110 DMF tickets or 2,175 honor/justice points than to
visit the bloody auction house
?
Really?
WTF man.
Also, Kalimdor sucks, so I am NOT changing continents :b
Hence Xedosz's very valid opinion which seems to have enraged you.
I laugh at your silly belief that anything that anyone says over the Internet can enrage me.
Most people leveled several alts before the word heirloom ever existed in WoW.
...whereas the rest of us couldn't get heirlooms until we had leveled several alts without them and mastered the fine art of farming Darkmoon tickets. That's not a significant difference. I still have no heirlooms for my hunters, shamans, or cloth alts, and my rogue is stuck with borrowing a Bloodsoaked Skullforge Reaver from my tanks.
Most people understand that even during leveling, sometimes you have to actually try to get something rather than walk the path of least resistance and have it all handed to you.
Yeah, because that's how you get heirlooms, right? They're just handed to you by other players.
Oh wait, no, they bind on account, meaning that you have to work hard and earn them yourself. Oops.
But you're so infuriated
Wrong.
I know you've only been playing about 6 months, so you don't remember a time before heirlooms
I do, however, remember a time when
I had no idea what heirlooms were, much less how to get them
, which is functionally the same. My current heirlooms are no more than 5-6 weeks old. I've been playing for 8 months.
or questing flows were much less smooth.
Oh, you mean like Eversong Woods, the Ghostlands, and Outland used to be before the BC revamp? Yeah... long time ago, man.
*roll eyes*
If you are not lazy, you can get a shield pretty easily. If you do a little searching online, you would know that.
Yeah, I've known that since I first started picking up shields back in December.
If you want it handed to you, then you're entitled to that belief.
...which is funny, considering that we're talking about Heirlooms here and Heirlooms, by definition,
cannot
be handed to me by anyone unless I'm taking over their whole account.
Just be honest- I want an heirloom shield because I don't think I should have to put any effort at all into getting gear for an alt.
Really? You think accumulating 110 Darkmoon tickets or 2,175 honor/justice points require less effort than paying like 10 silver at the auction house?
Really?
But you said it yourself- you want heirlooms in every single slot.
No, Magician compared Heirloom shields to Heirloom gloves and bracers, and I pointed out that the comparison was invalid, but added that gloves and bracers would be cool too.
You don't want to have to try for anything.
Oh, so I don't even have to TRY to get Darkmoon tickets or honor/justice points? They just fall into my lap at random?
Really?
Post by
331902
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
ElhonnaDS
So I guess that bears several questions:
1) If a normal shield is so unbelievably easy to get, why are you rolling around with a shield from 20 levels ago in the first place? Are you role-playing someone who is protesting the corporate enslavement of Azeroth by refusing to use the AH? Why is there even a topic about how you need an Heirloom shield because you can't get a normal one questing, if normal ones are easier to get than heirlooms?
2) What do dead realms have to do with cross-realm LFG?
3) How bad are you at Whack-a-Gnoll that you consider one week's worth of Darkmoon dailies plus a couple of turn-ins significant effort?
4) Are you generally snide to people when in perfectly good spirits, then? That might be the key to your "plays well with others" problem.
And to clarify, for many people who are running end game content, they have many more justice points than they will ever need. Most people I play with have had to return to heroics every time a new tier was released to earn valor points, and ended up with a superfluous amount of justice as a side effect. So for many people, heirlooms came free when there was nothing else worth buying. Or, when running BG's for conquest points, they ended up with extra honor that went towards heirlooms. If you haven't been gearing for raiding or to get into LFR, and don't run BG's for conquest points, then I could see that you wouldn't have this surplus. I apologize for assuming you were doing that level of content. But the DMF tickets are still pretty easy to get, and you don't need to speak to anyone.
Post by
239153
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