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10.2.5
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10.2.6
Religion
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Post by
109094
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Sas148
What do you think dominates this planet more than humans? Or is more intelligent on our planet?
There is no dominate creature on our planet, as far as I am concerned. Humans build homes and cities, true, but so do bees and other creatures.
As for intelligence? You have no way to prove to me that other species are not sentient in their own ways, or possess an intelligence we just can't see.
I don't think humans are anything special.
I see what you're saying, but from a purely scientific stand point, homosapiens are by far the dominant and most intelligent species on our planet. Intelligence primarily dictates dominance. Yes, bee's build hives or "cities" but that's purely instinctual. That's what they do and they cannot defy that. Almost every species on this planet, and even humans to some extent, are driven by instinct. Despite our actions as a species not always being the best for our planet it doesn't negate the fact that we are the dominance on Earth.
We contemplate our existence and the universe, we choose our own paths in life (as best we can)... and I was going to go on but there is so much evidence out there to prove we're dominant so I'm sure you can look it up. :D(##RESPBREAK##)8##DELIM##sas148##DELIM##
Post by
Atik
Ok. But you wouldn't have a problem with people eating other humans, then, right?
That's an interesting question.
See, human meat isn't exactly the best thing to go eating. It's actually pretty bad for you, and I wouldn't suggest it, or do it, if there were other options available.
As a last resort? I don't see a problem with it in that case. I would see more a problem with killing someone to eat them, but once again; it's mostly in the absence of any other option.
It's a pack animal brought to survival of the fittest, and I wouldn't hold it against the survivor in the end.
Someone running around in normal society and killing people to eat them is much more weird though, and needs to be put down for the sake of the species. (On a number of levels, as their murders effect our population, and if they breed, their offspring might also have an affinity towards eating humans, which just gets worse.)
If aliens landed on this planet tomorrow, who do you think they would try to make contact with, us? Or bees?
Maybe even wolves. They might just look at our planet and think there is no intelligent life at all. We only look intelligent to ourselves.
And that hold true for the rest of your post. We see out ability to use animals and such in all those ways as a proof of out intelligence and dominance. But that is only because that is how we define such things.
We have no way to prove that, from the perspective of a bee, we are not just some dumb animal.
Post by
asakawa
I don't understand people who are atheists, and vicious about it. It's not all of them or even most of them, to be sure, but some people get outright offended/disgusted with people who are religious, regardless of whether that person is intrusive and pushy with their religion, or barely even mentions it. Very often, they seem to be content to ignore all rules about proper behavior and just say the most condescending, nasty, mean-spirited things to people who are religious (again, even if they don't practice their religion in a way that affects other people). These will be the same people who will go on a righteous crusade against people who discriminate or treat poorly people based on race, piercings, tattoos, ethnicity, gender, etc. They'll come to the defense of people who have radically non-mainstream ideas about philosophy, diet, dress code, profanity, etc. But all of their respect for the right to say and do what you want, as long and you don't affect other people, seems to go out the window when God comes up.
I don't think they're the only ones. I've see otherwise seemingly well-mannered religious people turn into spiteful, nasty creatures when the topic of other religions, homosexuality and atheism come up, as though they have the right to not treat anyone in those classifications as human beings anymore. It's really sad on both sides. But I have a better understanding of that (from a logical standpoint), which is a result of them fearing hell and believing that God wants them to act that way, than I do people who don't believe that what you believe has any affect at all, but are just as militant about berating people who don't believe what they do.
This is a post about nice and not nice people who, you rightly state, could be either theistic or atheistic. As such I don't see the relevance to the topic.
@Ryjacork,
DoctorLore's comment
is spot on. Be sure not to miss it.(##RESPBREAK##)16##DELIM##asakawa##DELIM##
Post by
Sas148
I'm starting to think the dominant topic in his discussion, religion, is getting overshadowed by discussions that don't exactly fit into that subject. I am also guilty of derailing this a bit.
Let's try and get back on track! :)
Post by
asakawa
I dunno, it's a very open topic and I think (though I would never want to assume to talk for him) that MyTie intended that be the case. I'm finding the different things being discussed all revolve quite tightly around the central theme of "religion" and I'm enjoying the balance of theistic and atheistic discussions going on.
Oh, but yeah, cannibalism might be random enough to achieve escape velocity. Fair point.(##RESPBREAK##)16##DELIM##asakawa##DELIM##
Post by
Gone
@Ryjacork,
DoctorLore's comment
is spot on. Be sure not to miss it.
Yea i read that, it actually cleared things up for me a bit. So I guess I dont have a problem with Atheism in general. But Gnostic-Atheism is what I think is very close minded. I mean Gnostic-Theism can be as well, but that I at least understand to a point.
@Atik
Another question to you. If human slavery is wrong, then what about bomb sniffing dogs and other rescue animals? Have you ever owned any pets?
Post by
asakawa
Yeah, like DoctorLore, I've never known one.
In my experience most people who self-identify as "atheist" are sceptically-minded people who are happy (often eager) to change their mind at the drop of a hat but they require sufficient evidence to do so.
Post by
ElhonnaDS
@Atik- ok, but if they were breeding people to eat them (even if it isn't all that healthy- after all, we eat a lot of unhealthy things), and so weren't affecting the general population, why would that be any different than normal animal husbandry if we're not any different?
@Sas- sorry if that was perceived to be off-topic. I didn't think it was- I was looking for an answer as to why someone who didn't believe in God would be bothered by someone who did, on principle, if the religious person made no attempts to infringe on their life with it. Behavioral issues aside, I'm curious why that would be offensive to someone if they don't believe there are any greater repercussions for believing or not believing. It is a genuine question, and based on previous threads in this forum I know of several people who would be able to answer it, if they so choose.(##RESPBREAK##)8##DELIM##sas148##DELIM##I actually was referring to the dominant species and cannibalism talk. I didn't find anything off-topic about your post. :)
Post by
Atik
@Atik- ok, but if they were breeding people to eat them (even if it isn't all that healthy- after all, we eat a lot of unhealthy things), and so weren't affecting the general population, why would that be any different than normal animal husbandry if we're not any different?
Because human meat isn't good for us to eat in bulk.
Other than that? It really wouldn't be that different in my mind. The major thing is that most of out more comparable cousins in the world don't really do partaking in cannibalism, as far as I know.
To make it clear; I'm not a fan of some of the more "we are entitled to eating you" ways of getting meat for food and such. But I'm not prepared to make a massive deal out of it.
Post by
asakawa
@ElhonnaDS, I think Sas thought the cannibalism stuff was OT. It was me that challenged the "mean atheists" post. I challenged it because it seemed like a dig (
atheists are sometimes vicious
) that you then went on to soften with admissions that theists can be just as vicious. Some people are nasty, is this a religious matter or a human nature thing?
I would suggest it might be most fruitful to question someone who posts in that vicious way you mention rather than raise it here.
Post by
MyTie
I'm not sure I find it that unique. I think I can relate actually, to some degree. Don't get me wrong, I don't want to die... I don't want to simply not exist.
If it isn't unique, it is very unusual. Most of psychology is built on a person's understanding of sex, life, and death. Most religions have to do with the furtherance of life. It a very natural part of humanity to not want to die. You post says so. It's unusual for someone to say "I'd be bored, so I'd rather not exist". That's pretty unique.
Post by
Monday
I challenged it because it seemed like a dig (atheists are sometimes vicious) that you then went on to soften with admissions that theists can be just as vicious.
And you challenged it, why? There's far worse said from the atheist crowd on a regular basis.
Post by
asakawa
Benzene, you're exemplifying exactly why I don't think it's a fruitful direction to take the discussion! Phrases like "the atheist crowd" are a big part of the problem.
My point is that saying that mean people are mean isn't a discussion of religion and as such is surely off topic and only likely to mire the whole thread in petty recrimination. I'm making no comment at all about the people ElhonnaDS is talking about or the comments they make only the subject.(##RESPBREAK##)16##DELIM##asakawa##DELIM##
Post by
Monday
I was just somewhat mystified that her comment was considered off-topic, whereas the cannibalism wasn't.
However, my comments
are
off topic, and I apologize. I'll try to stay on topic from now on.
Post by
168916
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Atik
Seriously, this is a pretty frivolous argument. We
understand bee language
for pete's sake. What they say to each other suggests that they don't understand ours. We can draw a conclusion from this, surely.
We think we do.
I think we're fooling ourselves.(##RESPBREAK##)8##DELIM##sas148##DELIM##I asked that we move away from discussions of a non-religious nature a bit earlier, let's try and do that please. Thank you!
Post by
168916
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Monday
If you want me to name names, send me an email.
Post by
Atik
Seriously, this is a pretty frivolous argument. We
understand bee language
for pete's sake. What they say to each other suggests that they don't understand ours. We can draw a conclusion from this, surely.
We think we do.
I think we're fooling ourselves.
On what grounds?
On the grounds that humans are arrogant and full of themselves without basis?
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