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Post by
Monday
I find it interesting that you mention this since a all mighty god would be able to prevent illness and injuries.
I don't feel the need to pray to someone who could've prevented it if he/she just felt like it.
You fail to see the point of life from a Christian's perspective.
Post by
204878
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Lombax
I find it interesting that you mention this since a all mighty god would be able to prevent illness and injuries.
I don't feel the need to pray to someone who could've prevented it if he/she just felt like it.
You fail to see the point of life from a Christian's perspective.
Probably.
Post by
Patty
Agreed with DoctorLore on basically all those points just brought up.
Post by
Adamsm
How do you cope with tragedy and hardship in life, without God? Especially things like the death of a loved one, or a severe illness or injury? With my friends and family; I believe in the Goddess, but I also don't expect her to do a thing for me, since that isn't why She exists. I have my place in the world and She has Her's; I don't want a deity that is baby sitting me all the time, since if we don't learn and grow, the Soul within all of us just stagnates and will never reach that pinnacle.
How do you think you will cope with your own death?Depends; if it's long and drawn out, probably not well. If it's short and sweet, then I'll see you all when I come back around on the cycle.
Edit: Also, not commenting on the miracle question, since what is and isn't a miracle is far too diverse for most.
Post by
240140
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
asakawa
How do you cope with tragedy and hardship in life, without God? Especially things like the death of a loved one, or a severe illness or injury?
I have a pretty severe case of arthritis which prevented me from continuing in my chosen career and prevents me from doing things I would like to do on a daily basis. Praying doesn't help my condition but some medicines have proven effective. I honestly don't really understand the question. I don't know what comfort a god (especially an absent/invisible/intangible one) would be in those situations.
Should the idea that someone has decided I ought to have this illness to serve their opaque and possibly capricious purpose make me calm and accepting of my problems? Is trying to cure my problems with medicine going against his plan for me?
The flip side to what you said about thanking your god for things is that, are you giving a god credit for some awesome things that humans have done? Don't those humans deserve the praise? Does your god need to be thanked for stuff? Should I thank him that my arthritis isn't even worse?
And, what are your thoughts when a "miracle" happens, such as an unexplained reversal in an illness, or whan a child lost in the woods survives for days and is rescued. If you cannot thank God for it, do you just think "oh...thats great!"?
I've never seen anything approaching evidence for a miracle. the closest there is are cases where a situation wasn't fully understood at the time.
Regarding illnesses getting better, thank evolution for making such a wonderful immune system. Lost children? praise the parents for making such an awesome kid or the kid themselves for being awesome. Again, credit where it's due, not where you imagine it is due. no?
The whole business of miracles is one of the most incredible (as in not credible) parts of the whole thing. People used to claim actual miracles (water into wine, resurrections and so on) but now unlikely happy events are miracles too and to be considered gifts from a god? That's fine I guess but then unlikely negative events like natural disasters are a god's retribution? Belief in such a god is belief in a terrible entity who is surely not worthy of worship and love.
How do you think you will cope with your own death?
Same as you. I know what will happen to me so what is there to fear?
Same as you I worry about the people I leave. My wife would be distraught.
Post by
OverZealous
How do you cope with tragedy and hardship in life, without God? Especially things like the death of a loved one, or a severe illness or injury?
I think tradegy is inevitable in life. I was
really
close to my grandmother, and when she died I was, quite obviously, shattered. I don't think I've ever been myself since (first and foremost I stopped believing in the remote possibility that there may be a god out there somewhere when she died). But I, eventually, learned to cope with the fact that she was gone. If you love someone, you are bound to have good memories of them - I cope with loss through them. I remember the great times I've had with my grandmother, and I think of those. She suffered in the end, and the days before she died she said that she thought that she'd be better off dead. I don't want to believe that in a world someone personally watches over, there can be someone who thinks herself better off dead. But that is beside the point.
Basically, accepting and remembering is what I do. No higher power is going to change anything, so I accept that what has happened has happened and try to remember the good moments instead.
In return, I would very much like to know how God helps you cope with tradegy. Please read my earlier post
How do you think you will cope with your own death?
Death is inevitable, I think. I'm really freaking afraid of dying, but It will happen eventually so I do not dwell upon it. If there is an afterlife, then there is, and if there isn't - then no one will be the wiser. I don't think I'll have any issue with there not being an afterlife since I won't exactly be around to notice.
Edit: missed the "miracle" part; I'll edit an answer in later.
Post by
Magician22773
In return, I would very much like to know how God helps you cope with tradegy
OZ,
In my earlier post, I talked about when my dad was killed. I realize this is pretty much a "worst case" scenario, as the only thing i could imagine being worse would be the loss of one of my children.
It is difficult to explain what happened that day, especially without placing to much emphasis on the "religion" aspect of it.
When I realized my dad was dead, and my efforts to save him were not going to work, I was crushed. I mean I physically felt like I was being crushed. I was having trouble breathing. My head was spinning. I was...devastated.
At that time, I had very little "faith" in my life. I didn't go to church. I rarely thought of God. At the most I might say a silent prayer from time to time, but I was far from being "religious". But when he died, I just walked away, and got on my knees, and I prayed. I can still remember, that I didn't know "how" to pray. I just knew I needed too.
As I said earlier, I physically felt the crushing sensation lifted from me. I was able to breath. My heart slowed. I actually went from massive hysteria to a sense of total calm. I felt peaceful. I stayed there for maybe 3 or 4 minutes, and I stood up. I watched paramedics load my fathers body into an ambulance, and I got into my truck and followed them to the hospital. I called my mom (they were divorced) and let her know what happened. But the whole time, I just felt an overwhelming, peaceful feeling.
Now, in less dramatic situations, I still turn to God. Obviously, He doesn't respond in the same way as He did that day. But, just knowing that I am not dealing with the situation alone, and knowing that whatever is happening, that He is there with me, still gives me some peace in all situations.
An example is what I am going through with my dog right now. He is almost 15 years old, and he is losing the use of his rear legs. This guy is my little buddy, and is like a member of my family. I know it is going to be so hard to not have him around. But, I also know that some time soon, I am going to have to make the decision to put him down. Just knowing that God is there for me, and will be there when that time comes, offers me comfort, and makes the time that I do have left with him better. I am not consumed with grief about what is to come, so I can enjoy our last few weeks or months together.
I guess I asked the question because I find myself turning to God in so many of these situations, that I could not imagine if He wasn't there for me to turn too. I can see someone without faith getting through the everyday issues, and even issues like the one with my dog. But I just can't imagine not having Him to turn to in major tragedies. Then again, if you believe as I do, He is there for you, even if you are not turning to Him.
Post by
asakawa
I don't want to undermine a powerful and emotional moment in your life so please forgive me if what I say here is not okay but what I see in the moment after you lost your father was someone having a panic attack (or mild episode of some kind - I'm no psychologist), dealing with that by taking themselves out of the immediate situation and allowing themselves a moment of quiet contemplation. Collecting their thoughts and letting their consciousness take back over from the grief and, perhaps, adrenaline of the high stress, high emotion moment.
This is sort of what I was saying earlier.
You
are awesome. It was an awful situation that it sounds like you handled tremendously and in a way that allowed you to experience the grief but not be taken over by it. You deserve some praise for that.
Now, I don't think my reading of the situation necessarily precludes your interpretation of experiencing god but you were able to do something special that day and I think you did it with tools that you already had with you rather than being given something in that moment.
Post by
OverZealous
In return, I would very much like to know how God helps you cope with tradegy
OZ,
In my earlier post, I talked about when my dad was killed. I realize this is pretty much a "worst case" scenario, as the only thing i could imagine being worse would be the loss of one of my children.
It is difficult to explain what happened that day, especially without placing to much emphasis on the "religion" aspect of it.
When I realized my dad was dead, and my efforts to save him were not going to work, I was crushed. I mean I physically felt like I was being crushed. I was having trouble breathing. My head was spinning. I was...devastated.
At that time, I had very little "faith" in my life. I didn't go to church. I rarely thought of God. At the most I might say a silent prayer from time to time, but I was far from being "religious". But when he died, I just walked away, and got on my knees, and I prayed. I can still remember, that I didn't know "how" to pray. I just knew I needed too.
As I said earlier, I physically felt the crushing sensation lifted from me. I was able to breath. My heart slowed. I actually went from massive hysteria to a sense of total calm. I felt peaceful. I stayed there for maybe 3 or 4 minutes, and I stood up. I watched paramedics load my fathers body into an ambulance, and I got into my truck and followed them to the hospital. I called my mom (they were divorced) and let her know what happened. But the whole time, I just felt an overwhelming, peaceful feeling.
Now, in less dramatic situations, I still turn to God. Obviously, He doesn't respond in the same way as He did that day. But, just knowing that I am not dealing with the situation alone, and knowing that whatever is happening, that He is there with me, still gives me some peace in all situations.
An example is what I am going through with my dog right now. He is almost 15 years old, and he is losing the use of his rear legs. This guy is my little buddy, and is like a member of my family. I know it is going to be so hard to not have him around. But, I also know that some time soon, I am going to have to make the decision to put him down. Just knowing that God is there for me, and will be there when that time comes, offers me comfort, and makes the time that I do have left with him better. I am not consumed with grief about what is to come, so I can enjoy our last few weeks or months together.
I guess I asked the question because I find myself turning to God in so many of these situations, that I could not imagine if He wasn't there for me to turn too. I can see someone without faith getting through the everyday issues, and even issues like the one with my dog. But I just can't imagine not having Him to turn to in major tragedies. Then again, if you believe as I do, He is there for you, even if you are not turning to Him.
I see. Or maybe I don't, but I think I do. I appreciate the answer
:)
Post by
FatalHeaven
Incidentally expanding on Atik's question, I wonder if any of the religious folks can comment on something I've always been curious about - how it was that you came to subscribe to one religion rather than another?
I mean I know that one isn't meant to "choose" whichever religion suits one's fancy, at some level. But I'm imagining if I was a gay man and religious, I'd presumably feel in my heart that "surely god can't possibly disapprove of what I do with my partner". If in that situation I happened to belong to a church whose authorities assured me that god does indeed disapprove, I would think "These guys clearly have it wrong" and I'd need to find a different religion. Did something like that happen as you came to whichever religion you came to, or if not, how do you view situations where what your church says contradicts what's in your heart?
Note, this post isn't meant to say anything about Fatal's situation, homosexuality is just one example of what people and their churche might disagree about. I'm just curious in general. Basically, I find the belief that there is "something" out there beyond us very understandable - it's more the process by which one comes to believe in tangible specifics (not having gay sex, not eating pork, whatever it happens to be) that mystifies me.
I take no offense nor do I assume you are directing it at me personally, but in response...
I know what the bible says. I know that to lay with someone of the same sex is a sin per my religion. But I don't believe homosexuality is a choice. Therefor, I choose to love a God who loves me but hates my sin. He is in my heart, he knows my truth, and it is he who will judge me; noone else. If a church doesn't want to let me worship there because I am Gay, I will find a different church.
Post by
168916
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
FatalHeaven
Also Christianity
is
a choice. You aren't born Christian. You have to accept God and ask for forgiveness. Any Christian
should
be able to tell you that. You might be born into a Christian family but ultimately the decision to accept God is an individuals choice. A God fearing parent makes not the child saved.
It's the same with any other religion. You choose.
Post by
asakawa
You have to accept God and ask for forgiveness.
For what must one ask forgiveness?
Post by
Adamsm
For disbelieving till you accepted Him.
Post by
FatalHeaven
You have to accept God and ask for forgiveness.
For what must one ask forgiveness?
If
you believe as Christians do, and I know that you don't but I'm using that standpoint to explain myself from; but assuming one does, you are asking forgiveness for your past transgressions, sins you've commited, etc. Ever since Eve ate that apple and was cast out of the Garden of Eden with Adam, humans were sinners. She broke Gods rule and we are her decendants. It may seem drastic to you or to other non believers but to Christians it is what it is. Heaven is sinless and Heaven is our goal. So if you don't ask forgiveness you will never make it there. I could say so much more but I really don't want to preach about it.
The short answer is, I'm a sinner. Sinners need to ask forgiveness. The end.
Post by
FatalHeaven
For disbelieving till you accepted Him.
Not entirely true. Even a child who never knew any different; Never didn't believe in God, still needs to ask for the forgiveness. For example, one could go their entire life saying "Yeah, God's real." They still won't go to heaven unless they have that talk with God.
Post by
MyTie
For what must one ask forgiveness?
The only people who need to ask forgiveness are the imperfect ones, and only if they want to have audience with God.
It breaks down like this:
1) God is the opposite of death.
2) The penalty for sin is death.
3) God took human form and died, because He was the only one would could safely do so. Since He didn't have sins to pay off with His death, He choose to accept penalty for all other's sins.
4) The forgiveness of that debt isn't automatic, but must be asked for and accepted.
So, if you have ever sinned, and you want audience with God, the sins must be forgiven so that spiritual life can ensue, not death. You cannot forgive these sins. Only once has the debt you incurred been prepaid.
Post by
Atik
How do you cope with tragedy and hardship in life, without God? Especially things like the death of a loved one, or a severe illness or injury?
As someone who has lost a good number of family members and close freinds in my life recently? I cope with it by moving on. I don't worry about what happens to them after death, as it isn't truely my problem.
I, personnally, don't think I'll ever encounter them again. And I am okay with that, I move on with my life. I mourne them, yes, but I don't let it hold me back; I have my own story. And mine continues after theirs closes.
How do you think you will cope with your own death?
I'll die, and except my death.
Honestly? The entire idea of an immortal soul is something that has always pushed me away from christianity and other religions.
I don't want to be around forever.
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