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10.2.5
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10.2.6
Religion
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Post by
asakawa
Magician, I really feel you're being overly sensitive to the point of preventing legitimate discussion from taking place. Fenomas has given a good explanation of how the use of the analogy is not an insult to that which you believe. If you take insult from it then this may not be a discussion in which you want to take part (and that's fine sometimes, to filter the threads you read) but in my position as a moderator on the site I hope you can understand and respect my decision that, as long as the context is one of respectful discussion, then it should be okay to use simple analogy to make a point.
I don't want to prevent you from challenging someone who you feel may be using a cheap analogy or trying to insult - I think it's appropriate for you to do so - but perhaps we could draw a line under this particular case and move forward. Would that be okay?
Secarious, If you wish to ask Adamsm something about his beliefs then feel free to do so but it is not your place to proclaim what he is or was.
Post by
Atik
Interesting.
See, the reason I ask is because I've thought about what makes me reject religions.
Generally, the idea of making humans seem so important is a large contributing factor. Likewise, the idea of an immortal soul and never-ending existence (Whether through reincarnation or in some sort of afterlife) just sounds... horrible to me. I couldn't imagine it, to literally exist forever.
However, there are some things that I do subscribe to from religion. Most importantly, the Buddhist idea that each and every life of every being is precious and shouldn't be taken for granted. There is also, of course, the golden rule of Christianity to treat others the way you would want them to treat you.
Post by
asakawa
However, there are some things that I do subscribe to from religion. Most importantly, the Buddhist idea that each and every life of every being is precious and shouldn't be taken for granted. There is also, of course, the golden rule of Christianity to treat others the way you would want them to treat you.
But neither of those require religion to believe, to follow or to teach. I mean you're basically talking about morality there and I agree that both are good simple moral rules to follow but the fact that they've come from religions doesn't mean that the religions themselves have value.
My own feeling is that many religions strip the morality away from their followers by using the 'carrot and the stick' approach to being "good". If you are to be rewarded for good behaviour and punished for bad then are you acting morally or are you acting purely in your own self interest?
Post by
Sas148
If you are to be rewarded for good behaviour and punished for bad then are you acting morally or are you acting purely in your own self interest?
Ahh yes. That was a lovely debate in my recent philosophy class. :)
Post by
Atik
Well, not to look like I'm defending religion, but I have certainly met religious people who simply do good for the sake of doing good.
Similiarly, I have met many religious people who don't follow their teachings in the slightest...
Post by
168916
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
asakawa
It's incredible that I've heard the end of that quote so many times without ever finding the whole thing. Thanks for posting it.
It's exactly my firm belief that it is the case that leads me to define myself as an antitheist and not an atheist. I see no good from religion but an awful lot of bad.
Post by
557473
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Skreeran
I do believe in unicorns.
Post by
gamerunknown
Good luck with finding an affirming church Fatal: I think the episcopalian Church takes it as a national position, there are a few others listed
here
. You could also set up your own local workshop (progressive/Christian left?) or even follow the instructions of Christ in Matthew 6 (praying indoors).
Edit: Also, you can note me down as one of the people that'd love to live in eternal bliss in the afterlife. If I were a Christian, I'd be a universal salvationist I think, even if it meant some individuals took longer to achieve grace in the afterlife (or ultimately rejected it for oblivion). I think that ultimately one ought to strive to do good on this Earth though. If the methods used to achieve that offend a deity, then so be it.
Post by
Azazel
I am not so much against religion, I am more aginst worship and public preaching. Religion should not come from someone (even parents), you should find it yourself. Otherwise, certain bias might be attached to your beliefs that will stick through to other who you will preach (if you do).
I like this.
Post by
OverZealous
I have questions, and quite a lot of them. I'm going to take my time to try and word them correctly, but I hope that anyone who knows me around here knows that I never intend to offend anyone for their beliefs, nor do I disrespect any believers for holding different beliefs from mine - but some of the questions I have may come across as offensive. Please do not take them as such.
Post by
Orranis
My own feeling is that many religions strip the morality away from their followers by using the 'carrot and the stick' approach to being "good". If you are to be rewarded for good behaviour and punished for bad then are you acting morally or are you acting purely in your own self interest?
The problem with that argument is that it can eventually be applied to everything. I could argue that due to the way it makes on perceive him or herself and how society perceives them that all selfless action is, eventually, in their own self-interest on some level.
On the other hand I do agree that stating that humans need religion to act morally is besides being, in my opinion, false, also a very saddening statement.
I do believe in unicorns.
My Little Pony is the opiate of the masses?
Post by
207044
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
asakawa
I am not so much against religion, I am more aginst worship and public preaching. Religion should not come from someone (even parents), you should find it yourself. Otherwise, certain bias might be attached to your beliefs that will stick through to other who you will preach (if you do).
I wouldn't class myself as "against religion". I don't think it's good and I think it's responsible for a lot of bad but I don't think it should be taken away from people or outlawed.
Further, I'm not against worship or public preaching. If it's important to people to do those things then I don't see why it shouldn't be allowed.
I would like for every person to make their own fully educated decision on religion without bias but that's pretty unrealistic. I would settle for an abolishment of Dawkins' pet hate - calling children a "Christian child" or a "Muslim child". I agree with him that it's an abuse of the situation the child is in to do that to them.
Post by
Orranis
My biggest question is why people are so reluctant to change view points in religion. Cause they seem to all say it was written in the bible so it shall stay. But two counter points with more knowledge and a better understanding comes different conclusions. I mean average reading level of those first interpreting the bible was 6th grader reading level. Secondly why leave pope prophet ect if you don't plan on having times change at least a little.
Why do people insist on science is wrong their was no big bang no evolution. Why couldnt they simply be the tools that he used to created earth. As for times not matching up could it not be time is simply be he uses a different scale of time or that time is relative. Why do they insist it must be magic instead of a being with a greater understanding of the universe acting on a universal scale.
Honestly I'd rather that they stubbornly adhered to what they believed than had a cop-out everyone-is-right position. I mean, evolution and the Bible are by no means compatible, and I'd prefer that people either believed it or didn't than blatantly ignored the contradictions presented by the two.
Post by
Adamsm
Secarious, If you wish to ask Adamsm something about his beliefs then feel free to do so but it is not your place to proclaim what he is or was.
See, I'm being good and ignoring the obvious troll..though, I admit, the very first thing that popped into my head would have gotten me a vacation from the forums.
Post by
Monday
I picked the one I did after a lot of introspection and study.
Mostly, however, because it fulled a hole in my heart.
Yeah, that sounded really self righteous and cheesy.
Post by
Magician22773
One of the things I have been trying to do lately, is to try and thank God more, and ask for less. For so long, it seemed that I only remembered to turn to Him when I needed something, or when things were bad in my life. So often it seems, that I would forget that he isn't just there when I think I need Him, but always there, providing so much for me and others.
So my first question for the atheists is:
How do you cope with tragedy and hardship in life, without God? Especially things like the death of a loved one, or a severe illness or injury?
And, what are your thoughts when a "miracle" happens, such as an unexplained reversal in an illness, or whan a child lost in the woods survives for days and is rescued. If you cannot thank God for it, do you just think "oh...thats great!"?
My second question is:
How do you think you will cope with your own death?
As a Christian, I don't fear death itself. I know what awaits me. My only issue with death is for my family that I would be leaving behind. I could be diagnosed with cancer tomorrow, and have no regrets, other than not being there for my wife and kids.
Post by
Lombax
How do you cope with tragedy and hardship in life, without God? Especially things like the death of a loved one, or a severe illness or injury?
I find it interesting that you mention this since a all mighty god would be able to prevent illness and injuries.
I don't feel the need to pray to someone who could've prevented it if he/she just felt like it.
How do you think you will cope with your own death?
I had zero problems with not existing for a long time before, I will have no problems with not existing again when I die.
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