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Blizzard should nerf twinking abilities
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Post by
1011421
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Nathanyal
They want the game balanced
at the level cap
. Lower levels don't matter all that much. Especially in the first 60 levels of the game where several classes are OP. Most classes don't have their key abilities until later levels, making it even worse. But with the addition of Mists, some of this will get fixed.
There are also toons out there with gear you can get on your own without any help from a level 85. Those toons at level 68 with 15k+ health while the rest are at 3k are just using gear with tons of sockets and putting in lots of stam gems. Anyone can do that if they put the effort in.
All the other "uber" twink gear you're talking about is just the normal heirloom gear. Players were twinking long before heirloom gear was implemented. The only real place that heirloom gear is better than most gear you can get from dungeons is 10-24, where there isn't much of an equivalence. Plus you don't have to farm another piece of gear when you hit a new level with heirlooms. The only place it really hurts is that most heirlooms don't have hit rating on them, thus you'll wind up missing some spells.
And I have tried to PvP on a toon without heirloom gear. It was terrible, but I know that the game isn't balance for those lower levels.
Post by
Adamsm
Also; actual twinks have their own brackets, and they aren't actually in the same one with you. Those in Heirloom gear are leveling, same as you; would you complain if you were out in the world and got ganked by a Heirloom wearer?
Post by
992790
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
yukonjack
If a new player were to use a database such as Wowhead they would be able to find gear from dungeons comparable to heirlooms as seen here
http://www.wowhead.com/compare?items=10775;48685&l=40
combine that with practice and class research and you will be able to more then hold your own.
Post by
Zarontes
heirlooms should be removed from the game completely would make lvling more fun
Post by
Adamsm
heirlooms should be removed from the game completely would make lvling more fun
Since you can level just as fast as you can with Heirlooms...not really; leveling is fun only if you find it fun after all; lots of people hate the leveling slog.
Post by
612548
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Post by
LZTYBRN
First of all, twinking is dead. The people you're talking about are just leveling, and they happen to choose to do so through pvp.
insecure twink
lol...No. It's called working smarter not harder. Heirlooms are there to make leveling a bit easier and faster. That's like calling people who ride bikes insecure because it's faster than walking (omg nerf bikes).
Oh, so being 85 means it's now 'okay' to create an imbalance in the game at lower levels and ruin it for newer players? Again, you've not a clue as to what actual balance is in a game then.
This is all subjective of course, but I think you're the one who doesn't understand balance. So you think someone who has been playing longer SHOULDN'T have an advantage over newer players? I guess that means you also believe a level 10 should have a fighting chance against an 85 then...
I usually level characters without heirlooms, so I feel your pain and frustration. However, that doesn't mean there's anything wrong with the system. If you don't like it, then do quests or dungeons. It's really that simple.
Post by
ElhonnaDS
I find it interesting that the people who complain about heirlooms (not just don't use them, but actively complain about them) all have accounts that on this site that started within the last week, and I am assuming have not even finished leveling through the first time.
Heirlooms exist because many people would like to try multiple classes, but 1-85 or 1-90 X 10 classes is a whole lot of time spent, on top of heroics, arenas, battleground, raids, dailies, farming, etc. So heirlooms are allowing people to earn a leveling speed increase on other characters by running content on their mains. In addition to giving people an incentive to roll multiple alts, it also keeps higher geared players running content longer when they can benefit other characters by doing so. It makes end game active for much longer, and gives players who have already done everything on one character incentive to keep playing between major content patches. After all, having done the same quests 5-6 times gets slightly repetitive.
As someone else pointed out, new players have virtually no contact with twinks in BG's anyway. If someone actually freezes the XP on a character, they are removed from general battle grounds and can only play against other twinks. The people you're running into are most likely not twinks, but are just trying to level through as quickly as possible. Sure heirlooms are an advantage there, but they (and you) could get gear with comparable stats from dungeons if you wanted it.
A lot of what you may be experiencing is also going to be a skill imbalance, which no one is going to be able to fix for you. Long term players have a great advantage in that they don't just know what their class can do, but probably what every other class can do. They know how to get other classes to waste cooldowns, have a good idea of what moves they'll use in what situations and how to counter them, the lay of the battlegrounds and what strategies work, etc. They're also used to using all of the niche moves that you may not be in PvP, and so can use their characters more effectively. Because of all this, even with equal gear, an experienced player will tear through a new player in PvP.
My advice- spend less time complaining about experienced players, and more time learning from them. If you're leveling, it won't take too long until you have an 85 yourself, and at that point you'll be happy that tanks and healers in the latest raid gear, and DPS who do 6 times the amount of damage you do as a fresh 85, still have a reason to use LFG and run dungeons with you so you can get geared. If you know what Wowhead is, then you know where to ask questions, find advice and look up what gear to get. If you're never going to get past 20 because you play the game for free, then don't be surprised that even in your bracket paying customers have an advantage, because the point to the free account is to show you how much fun it is to play the game on a real account.
Post by
331902
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Post by
678294
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
coolest676
TBH, I agree that heirloom wearers should have their own bracket such as people who choose to turn off their exp. I don't think a Vet player (me, i have many boas but i don't use them in bgs, i still win) should have any advantage over a new player. I think the new players should mingle amongst themselves and do pvp without getting 1-2 hit. That's not saying a level 10 should be able to beat an 85, but a level 14 should not be 2 hit by a level 10 strictly because of gear.
Post by
Adamsm
That's not saying a level 10 should be able to beat an 85, but a level 14 should not be 2 hit by a level 10 strictly because of gear.
But why should the reverse happen as well?
Post by
678294
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
nephthyswanderer
Obviously a lot of you haven't tried a bg from the 10-14 or 15-19 range recently. Full BoA, enchanted, first aid maxed rogues and hunters absolutely dominate. There are more people min/maxing than I've ever seen. It's not a new issue, but classes are horribly balanced, especially at this lvl. Twinking is still incredibly predominant, it is not dead.
And no, these people are not xp locked, there just happen to be tons of them. Last BG I was in at 17 was 7 rogues/hunters vs 8 rogues/hunters.
In almost full BoA's, I was getting almost one-shotted over and over again by rogues.
I agree with the OP that new players will be completely turned off by this. While most of us have been around a long time and just accept the total lack of regard for non-endgame balancing, it's incredibly frustrating.
My advice to new players, don't pvp until 30+ and only do so near the top of the level range.
On a related note, I did play against a team of full BoA Arcane Mages all named after stds and 2 healers. Hilarious to watch them systematically blow up everyone, one at a time.
Post by
lonewarrior
I don't get....in BG's your suppose to win...so your suggesting that someone who is well geared shouldn't be able to help their side? O.o
We look for the best geared/skilled players in raid pugs, but in BG's we're suppose to take an opposite view on being geared?
I agree with the BOA advantage...they don't belong. Having gear that auto stats higher with each level while new players have to grind out the better gear, make the BG's a farce.
They should just offer up XP buffs you can buy from a vendor or profession that you can put on your gear in lieu of heirlooms.
There has been an imbalance in every bracket above level 49 since the first expansion, except max level.
BoA's have now made all the BG's brackets a joke. But in some twisted way brought about parity. Those who don't have them, avoid BG's and those that do, mindlessly bash each others brains, grasping for their XP/points.
I disagree with your view on twinks.These were players who dedicated themselves to their style.
The sentiment on twinks has always been one that irked me.
I'm not a twinker myself mind you, but I had quite a few in my guilds during our TBC days.
These guys in my view were no different then players who went hardcore PvE. They wanted to be the best. They put in a lot of time to get their gear.
Anyone could twink, new players or veterans. There was no time constraint to making one. Nothing was fairer.
As a regular BG's player back when there was no XP in BG's and twinks were in full bloom...I loved having them on my side. What do I care for the other faction in PvP.
Trouble is... in PvE, nothing is personal, unless of course you feel ninja'd.
But getting throttled in PvP seems to trigger some sought of whining reaction in players.
It's even worse now..no one can take punch these days.
We need to belittle twinks somehow by using references like "insecure"..."elitist"..etc when in fact the opposite is true...they were the ones pwning players so it was the loser complaining that were the insecure ones.
The day they killed true twinking, one of my favorite members quit the game.
As we spoke the last time, he foresaw then what has come to pass today....selfish entitlement.
No one wants to earn anything. No one wants to take their lumps anymore.
It's... "I play thus I am to be rewarded or else"
There is no cure for BG's in the current state.
A overhaul is needed.
One that uses ilevel gear score as part of the selection process. Then you would have more evenly geared BG's.
Let non-leveling twinks live again alongside the XP earners. It was their house long before XP earners came along. They should be allowed back in again.
With twinking, new players could role a second toon dedicates just for PvP.
What could be fairer then that.
Post by
584547
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
pnkflffytutu
At low levels it's not heirlooms that make it imbalanced it's the classes...I was bringing my druid on up lately and would occasionally do a bg...He had full heirlooms and would get absolutely stomped by hunters, rogues and mages.
I'm in no way saying blizzard needs to fix low levels I'm just saying that class has a much larger impact than heirlooms.
You stay in the same bracket for about the maybe an hour then move onto the next one. It's really not that big of a deal just keep on leveling through.
Post by
mmorpgaddict
Last time I tried low lvl BG's, it was just awful. New players getting 1-2 shotted. I always try explaining to new players that PvP is much better at higher lvl. But they should try to make low lvl PvP at least somewhat balanced.
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