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Blizzard should nerf twinking abilities
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Post by
1011885
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
pnkflffytutu
A rogue or mage should not be able to stand toe to toe with a warrior or DK in melee... just not reasonable in any sense of the word.
Wait what? I don't see how this makes any sense...
Post by
Adamsm
The only thing "wrong" with PvP is the entire concept of resilience. The game already has things designed to mitigate damage from the enemy: armor class, dodge, parry, etc. It shouldn't matter whether the enemy is an NPC orc or a PC orc if they're both wielding a sword. A rogue or mage should not be able to stand toe to toe with a warrior or DK in melee... just not reasonable in any sense of the word. All the talk about heirlooms, classes, etc. makes less difference than player experience, as well as the experience of those team-mates you're depending on.
Wait till MoP when Resilience is a base line stat.
Post by
1011893
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
DarkFenris
Yeah, Blizzard needs to nerf how you travel too. It's not fair that higher level characters and 85s can travel much faster, and even fly(!) when a level 12 can only walk.
I mean....what's up with that? Totally unfair.
Post by
331902
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Post by
331902
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
312434
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
lonewarrior
I
I agree with the BOA advantage...they don't belong. Having gear that auto stats higher with each level while new players have to grind out the better gear, make the BG's a farce.
Total BS.
I paid my dues several times over, why the hell should grind over and over for gear?
A new player can grind equal gear, on my 10th toon I don't feel like doing Wailing Caverns another 5 or 6 times.
Ive seen lvl 14's 1 or 2 shotted by level 10's, those guys still had grey items.... learn the lesson, get better gear if you ever want to be competitive in PvP.
I'm not against Blizz giving players like yourself...auto leveled toons. Want to roll a toon at max level and skip the whole leveling process...that's fine with me.
Heirlooms are bot gear. They auto progress , which goes against the very nature of the game.
We're not talking wearing just one piece anymore.
Your view is short sighted as well. Your not looking out for the experience of new players that this game needs to promote.
The very experience most us from earlier days, did enjoy and which let us to become long time subscribers.
Can today's new players experience the same...hardly.
I just level a Shadow Priest to level 80 on a new server(no heirlooms). Strictly through dungeon ques. For the most part..it's a farce. Forget trying to learn your class if your a spell casters.
Either they pull the whole room continuously and you spend 2/3 of the dungeon OOM or you target dies before you can cast off a spell.
I spent most of my time doing just Dots.
A new player get throttled out of BG's.
Your down to questing.
Why deprive others of what you yourself were not deprive of when you first started playing.
One that uses ilevel gear score as part of the selection process. Then you would have more evenly geared BG's.
.
Heirlooms have no ilevel, how does that solve anything? I could also point out that this hinders players leveling 80-85 with the helm and cloak.
Ilevel has been a disaster in Cata, people boosting with PvP gear, hell even with the wrong gear. Many don't even know how to gear now, all because getting into a dungeon was dumbed down to one number.
You have to take that quote within the context for which it was made...which is a total overhaul of the BG's.
Thus the elimination of Heirlooms or giving them an ilevel equivalent to Blues of that level.
Nothing is a perfect fix..you try something see where it goes..and then work from there.
But Blizz's handling of BG's comes across as if different departments are responsible for them with every expansion and each one wants to take them in a different direction or deemed level of importance.
Post by
Adamsm
Heirlooms are bot gear. They auto progress , which goes against the very nature of the game.
We're not talking wearing just one piece anymore.I disagree with that comment; I recently leveled a new DK to 85 and had no heirlooms....and it was still 'auto progress' just from the guild perk. Heirlooms are just another perk to help you get up, but they don't play the game for you.
Post by
Interest
A rogue or mage should not be able to stand toe to toe with a warrior or DK in melee... just not reasonable in any sense of the word.
Wait what? I don't see how this makes any sense...
I don't actually have too much of a problem going toe to toe with either of those classes as a DK.
Warriors...on the other hand...just kinda blow in lower level PvP (until like 70+, or even 80+)
Post by
lonewarrior
Heirlooms are bot gear. They auto progress , which goes against the very nature of the game.
We're not talking wearing just one piece anymore.I disagree with that comment; I recently leveled a new DK to 85 and had no heirlooms....and it was still 'auto progress' just from the guild perk. Heirlooms are just another perk to help you get up, but they don't play the game for you.
well I'm trying not to go off in every direction. The OP point was about BG's fairness and heirlooms/twinks.
Guild perks effect XP. Im not against the heirloom XP perk.
But they do auto stat, and when you make the expansion jump..they jump right along.
So any heirloom hitting the x8's of a particular expansion level make the bloated jump as well.
Automatically having all your heirlooms stats go from Vanilla to TBC stats, TBC/LK ..etc
gives an extreme advantage to such players over non-heirloom players.
Ummm..didn't we whine about this years ago when Blizz gave DK's full Outland Blues then dropped them in the bracket where players were still wearing Vanilla gear.
Now if Blizz saw fit to take non-leveling twinks out of the normal BG's ques to quell the vocal outcry of unfairness...how then do they justify the imbalance of gear between toons that can wear heirloom sets and new player or new server players who cannot possess heirlooms and yet, neither can they attempt to level the playing field by twinking a toon to go up against them.
Post by
Adamsm
But they do auto stat, and when you make the expansion jump..they jump right along.
So any heirloom hitting the x8's of a particular expansion level make the bloated jump as well.
Automatically having all your heirlooms stats go from Vanilla to TBC stats, TBC/LK ..etc
gives an extreme advantage to such players over non-heirloom players. Until they run into the Cata geared 77-80's, where even the random green drops are better then the Heirlooms, and they start getting smashed; it does even out as time goes by.
Ummm..didn't we whine about this years ago when Blizz gave DK's full Outland Blues then dropped them in the bracket where players were stilling wearing Vanilla gear.And people have whined about people picking up the next content gear to just smash the previous brackets(people who would do the first chain in Borean Tundra to get the Blue Axe and the greens, then lock at 69 to just smash their way through the BC era people). Though, I never whined about it lol.
Now if Blizz saw fit to take non-leveling twinks out of the normal BG's ques to quell the vocal outcry of unfairness...how then do they justify the imbalance of gear between toons that can wear heirloom sets and new player or new server players who cannot possess heirlooms and yet, neither can they attempt to level the playing field by twinking a toon to go up against them.I don't count that as leveling the playing field either; but as said before, the pvp system isn't built to be level at low levels.
Post by
lonewarrior
But they do auto stat, and when you make the expansion jump..they jump right along.
So any heirloom hitting the x8's of a particular expansion level make the bloated jump as well.
Automatically having all your heirlooms stats go from Vanilla to TBC stats, TBC/LK ..etc
gives an extreme advantage to such players over non-heirloom players. Until they run into the Cata geared 77-80's, where even the random green drops are better then the Heirlooms, and they start getting smashed; it does even out as time goes by.
Ummm..didn't we whine about this years ago when Blizz gave DK's full Outland Blues then dropped them in the bracket where players were stilling wearing Vanilla gear.And people have whined about people picking up the next content gear to just smash the previous brackets(people who would do the first chain in Borean Tundra to get the Blue Axe and the greens, then lock at 69 to just smash their way through the BC era people). Though, I never whined about it lol.
Now if Blizz saw fit to take non-leveling twinks out of the normal BG's ques to quell the vocal outcry of unfairness...how then do they justify the imbalance of gear between toons that can wear heirloom sets and new player or new server players who cannot possess heirlooms and yet, neither can they attempt to level the playing field by twinking a toon to go up against them.I don't count that as leveling the playing field either; but as said before, the pvp system isn't built to be level at low levels.
So the OP has a point and the BG's system needs to be overhauled.
The expansion brackets need to be re-arranged so the x8/x9 level toons are put in their appropriate place. x8-x2...x3-x7
Imbalance in class is one thing...giving gear that makes it fruitless to even attempt any success takes away a component of the game until as you say max level. The blistering comments a new player hears for being constantly slaughtered..even by lesser leveled toons is not exactly a great way to indoctrinate new players into the game.
Why would you think twinking wouldn't level the playing field. Allowing any player a toon, max PvP geared out and having full enchants..would easily compete with heirloom geared players. They just need the time and the opportunity of which neither are afforded at this moment.
If you cut off your XP you can't play in the same sandbox as the heirloom players and if you leave it on...you out level the bracket for twinking to be worth it.
Just funny how the community in general views what's important and what's not by self interest alone.
The LFR loot system is the best example of that.
How mannnnnnyyy threads went up about people feeling cheated because they didn't get theirs.
Yet in the same breath..."well I got my PvP heirlooms...so screw the new guys"
Post by
Adamsm
Imbalance in class is one thing...giving gear that makes it fruitless to even attempt any success takes away a component of the game until as you say max level. The blistering comments a new player hears for being constantly slaughtered..even by lesser leveled toons is not exactly a great way to indoctrinate new players into the game.And that's not really Blizzard's 'fault'; that's all player side, since people are asses when they have the internet to hide behind.
Why would you think twinking wouldn't level the playing field. Allowing any player a toon, max PvP geared out and having full enchants..would easily compete with heirloom geared players. They just need the time and the opportunity of which neither are afforded at this moment.For the simple fact that twinking was never about fair play and always about just wrecking other people and 'pretending' you are a better player; it's amusing that all the complaining about the heirlooms matches the complaints about twinks.
If you cut off your XP you can't play in the same sandbox as the heirloom players and if you leave it on...you out level the bracket for twinking to be worth it.Then in that case; the Looms are working as intended, getting them out of those broken pvp brackets as quickly as possible.
Just funny how the community in general views what's important and what's not by self interest alone.
The LFR loot system is the best example of that.
How mannnnnnyyy threads went up about people feeling cheated because they didn't get theirs.
Yet in the same breath..."well I got my PvP heirlooms...so screw the new guys"Welcome to the Internet, where the selfish are the most vocal.
Post by
wobbuffet
Blizzard, nerf twinking!
Given that this makes your post seem like it's addressed at Blizzard, I'm surprised nobody else has bothered pointing out something which the OP might have missed: this is not an official Blizzard forum.
Blizzard representatives will not be reading your suggestion here.
Post by
lonewarrior
Imbalance in class is one thing...giving gear that makes it fruitless to even attempt any success takes away a component of the game until as you say max level. The blistering comments a new player hears for being constantly slaughtered..even by lesser leveled toons is not exactly a great way to indoctrinate new players into the game.And that's not really Blizzard's 'fault'; that's all player side, since people are asses when they have the internet to hide behind.
Why would you think twinking wouldn't level the playing field. Allowing any player a toon, max PvP geared out and having full enchants..would easily compete with heirloom geared players. They just need the time and the opportunity of which neither are afforded at this moment.For the simple fact that twinking was never about fair play and always about just wrecking other people and 'pretending' you are a better player; it's amusing that all the complaining about the heirlooms matches the complaints about twinks.
If you cut off your XP you can't play in the same sandbox as the heirloom players and if you leave it on...you out level the bracket for twinking to be worth it.Then in that case; the Looms are working as intended, getting them out of those broken pvp brackets as quickly as possible.
Just funny how the community in general views what's important and what's not by self interest alone.
The LFR loot system is the best example of that.
How mannnnnnyyy threads went up about people feeling cheated because they didn't get theirs.
Yet in the same breath..."well I got my PvP heirlooms...so screw the new guys"Welcome to the Internet, where the selfish are the most vocal.
But it's Blizz game. They have a responsibility to the welfare of the game. Which on the PvE side they take more seriously and rightly so.
Heirlooms have an unnatural progressive stat mechanism. There effect in the game below max level is pronounce. Everything I've seen with their proliferation has been to the downside within the game.
Poorer gaming skills/class knowledge/technique and for new players a poorer overall experience.
So like I posted earlier...if established players wish to forgo leveling..then clamor Blizz to auto level alt toons to current expansion starting point. Which in this case would be 80 or for Mop 85.
As for twinking..this is where I guess we will just have to agree to disagree.
But let me just say one more thing just within the topic of the twinking era.
Not as much fair play...just fair opportunity. Twinking a toon for BG's was afforded to everyone.
Back before XP in BG's...those in BG's were there for the sole purpose of having a fighting toon.
So why would having a twink be digressed upon. In fact for true PvPers...it wasn't.
No more then true PvE players would lament having a greatly geared player in their run.
Back in TBC I had players in my guild, who solely played for BG's. They had toons within every bracket before level 50. They were good at what they did. They weren't the pariahs that twinks were made out to be. The were personable and they knew their class. It's not just being geared out..it's knowing how to use all of the class abilities. Which of course by nature most players today have no idea other then the two keys to press for PvE spamming.
Which is also why you read whining from players today after duels..about how so and so can't fight without using a particular class advantage. Only nubs make such comment regarding PvP.
Twinks in essence exposed the gap between those who knew their class and those who didn't.
Now if PvP players whined that they should be afford equal opportunity for raid spots wearing PvP gear and allow for PvP points to be earned with participation...without a doubt the PvE community would whip up a storm against it and if Blizz decide to accommodate and allow any PvP gear to auto re-stat resilience to a PvE stat and combine that with the lazy casualness that we see in BG's today with regards to strategy.
Well...where would the state of raiding be now. Thank god they never did anything so silly.
So why were PvE players afforded just such accommodations at the expense of the dedicated PvP players and the BG's themselves.
If the answer is to include more players into the fabric of the game and give them a fairer opportunity and better experience...like they did with LFR for end game...then where does the new player fit in?
Since for them, going up against heirloom players in BG's is a severe disadvantage.
well...I've said my piece on Twinking.
In truth ...the BG's are in total disarray. Maybe MoP will bring some needed changes.
All I can say to anyone..is level a new toon through BG's without heirlooms and then comeback and post the experience.
Unless your a glutton for punishment and abuse, I doubt very much it will be a positive one.
In days where subscriptions are waning...excluding and abusing our new players is not good business.
Peace!
Post by
Adamsm
In days where subscriptions are waning...excluding and abusing our new players is not good business./sigh The subs are still at 10.2 mil; I don't count that as 'waning'.
Post by
Interest
In days where subscriptions are waning...excluding and abusing our new players is not good business./sigh The subs are still at 10.2 mil; I don't count that as 'waning'.
Interesting. I've been noticing an increase of subs anyways.
Post by
331902
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
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