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Worgen and Goblins...
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Post by
Lavafrost
Although I know that the main reason they can't choose Monk is because Blizzard didn't want every race to be able to choose the class, I'm still deeply confused from a lore standpoint. Is the reason they can't be Monks because every Goblin and Worgen completed their training in Gilneas/Kezan, or is there something else I'm looking over?
Post by
Adamsm
Yup; just like how Pandarens can't be Death Knights, there would have been no Pandaren trainers out in the world at the time those starting zones start: both Gilneas and Lost Isles occur a few days before and after the Cataclysm hits.
Post by
Rankkor
Although I know that the main reason they can't choose Monk is because Blizzard didn't want every race to be able to choose the class, I'm still deeply confused from a lore standpoint.
Dude, you got it backwards. They have no problem with all races having access to some classes. After all, every race can be a warrior, and currently every race can be a DK. The main reason worgens and goblins can't be monks is exclusively due to lore.
Gilneas has lived in isolation for the past 20 years, and their starting zone actually begins BEFORE the cataclysm happens. Waaaay way back. Since pandarens only left pandaria AFTER the cataclysm happened, there's no way for them to be inside the greymane wall to teach gilneans the way of the monk.
Ditto for the goblins. The bilgewater cartel has lived on Kezan for a lot of time, and they only left the island when it was sunk due to the cataclysm, since the pandaren only left kezan after the cataclysm was over, there is no way they could be in kezan to teach the goblins how to be monks.
And the reason pandaren can't be DKs, is because again, they started showing up in the world after the cataclysm, WAY later after the war with the lich king was over.
Worgens and Goblins had some excuses to be Dks. Worgens were simply non-gilnean worgens, specifically ,worgens from Pyrewood Village, who fell to the scourge. And goblins were simply non-bilgewater goblins who also fell to the scourge.
But unlike the worgens and goblins (Who did had members of their race in large numbers outside of gilneas/kezan) pandarens had no other members of them in the world.
Post by
yukonjack
I would say your reasoning is more based on timelines then anything else Rank, we could just as easily see Goblins and Worgen travelling to Panderia to seek out the ways of the monks.
I think the real reason is Blizz doesnt want them to be and thats how its gotta be.
Post by
Adamsm
I would say your reasoning is more based on timelines then anything else Rank, we could just as easily see Goblins and Worgen travelling to Panderia to seek out the ways of the monks.
I think the real reason is Blizz doesnt want them to be and thats how its gotta be.
Well that's the entire point; how would there be Goblin and Worgen monks in the starting zones before the Mists of Pandaria even appeared?
Post by
yukonjack
I would say your reasoning is more based on timelines then anything else Rank, we could just as easily see Goblins and Worgen travelling to Panderia to seek out the ways of the monks.
I think the real reason is Blizz doesnt want them to be and thats how its gotta be.
Well that's the entire point; how would there be Goblin and Worgen monks in the starting zones before the Mists of Pandaria even appeared?
we could just as easily see Goblins and Worgen
travelling
to Panderia to seek out the ways of the monks.
Goblins and Worgen from the current time frame of the game are among the first horde and alliance forces to discover Panderia, some of them are intrigued by the monks and learn their ways becoming so proficient they are deemed worthy to return to Azeroth and train aspiring yound monks.
As you can see where there is a will there is a way and as I stated earlier the only real reason for not allowing Goblins and Worgen to be monks is because Blizzard says so and sometimes in life just like when you were a little kid you have to accept that.
Personally I am fine with that decision as there have always been restrictions on certain class and race combinations. It is what it is.
Post by
Ruhig
Goblins and Worgen from the current time frame of the game are among the first horde and alliance forces to discover Panderia, some of them are intrigued by the monks and learn their ways becoming so proficient they are deemed worthy to return to Azeroth and train aspiring yound monks.
As you can see where there is a will there is a way and as I stated earlier the only real reason for not allowing Goblins and Worgen to be monks is because Blizzard says so and sometimes in life just like when you were a little kid you have to accept that.
Personally I am fine with that decision as there have always been restrictions on certain class and race combinations. It is what it is.
That's just it though: the starting zones for those races are
not
in the current timeframe until near the end. There wouldn't have been training for those classes where they begin, because it hasn't reached the cataclysm yet.
It's not just "because Blizz says so." Lore-wise, it wouldn't make sense.
Post by
yukonjack
^^ Uhhg all I am saying is
anything
can be done if Blizz says so, case in point Draenei Death Knights.
Post by
Rankkor
^^ Uhhg all I am saying is
anything
can be done if Blizz says so, case in point Draenei Death Knights.
that's not a good example. Those draenei death knights are simply draenei champions killed and rezzed as DKs by the scourge, they didn't CHOOSE to be Dks, the enemy did that to them.
With the worgens and goblins, while its certainly possible for there to be NPC Worgens and Goblins that are monks, players start at a point in time where PANDARIA WAS NOT DISCOVERED! thus it makes no sense that there be monks on kezan or gilneas.
Anything can be done if blizz says so, but even them are not crazy enough to put something that makes no sense lore-wise, like a human warchief, or an undead druid.
Post by
yukonjack
^^ Uhhg all I am saying is
anything
can be done if Blizz says so, case in point Draenei Death Knights.
that's not a good example. Those draenei death knights are simply draenei champions killed and rezzed as DKs by the scourge, they didn't CHOOSE to be Dks, the enemy did that to them.
With the worgens and goblins, while its certainly possible for there to be NPC Worgens and Goblins that are monks, players start at a point in time where PANDARIA WAS NOT DISCOVERED! thus it makes no sense that there be monks on kezan or gilneas.
Anything can be done if blizz says so, but even them are not crazy enough to put something that makes no sense lore-wise, like a human warchief, or an undead druid.
Ok as I said I am totally fine with the decision to exclude Goblins and Worgen from becoming monks for whatever reason but please don't kid yourself about Blizz not being crazy enough to make whatever changes they see as potentially popular, lore and timelines be damned!
Post by
Rankkor
^^ Uhhg all I am saying is
anything
can be done if Blizz says so, case in point Draenei Death Knights.
that's not a good example. Those draenei death knights are simply draenei champions killed and rezzed as DKs by the scourge, they didn't CHOOSE to be Dks, the enemy did that to them.
With the worgens and goblins, while its certainly possible for there to be NPC Worgens and Goblins that are monks, players start at a point in time where PANDARIA WAS NOT DISCOVERED! thus it makes no sense that there be monks on kezan or gilneas.
Anything can be done if blizz says so, but even them are not crazy enough to put something that makes no sense lore-wise, like a human warchief, or an undead druid.
Ok as I said I am totally fine with the decision to exclude Goblins and Worgen from becoming monks for whatever reason but please don't kid yourself about
Blizz not being crazy enough to make whatever changes they see as potentially popular
, lore and timelines be damned!
Wrong.
Post by
yukonjack
Wrong.
All I'm saying is "take whatever Blizz says with a massive dose of salt" If there were enough of an outcry they would cave and add Worgen and Goblins to the list of races allowed to be monks.
Post by
Adamsm
It is true that Blizzard can reverse it at any time...but so far, they seem to be sticking to the standard time line itself:
Playable Death Knights: Races that could have possibly come into contact with the Scourge at some point during the 6 months before the start of Wrath.
Class/Race choices: As long as the trainers could have had access to them, for the point in time the starting zones exist, they could possibly be one.
It's like the idea of Pandarens becoming Druids; unless there is some hidden group of druids on the Wandering Isle itself, don't see that ever happening.
Post by
yukonjack
It's like the idea of Pandarens becoming Druids; unless there is some hidden group of druids on the Wandering Isle itself, don't see that ever happening.
Isn't that pretty much how we ended up with troll druids?
Post by
Adamsm
It's like the idea of Pandarens becoming Druids; unless there is some hidden group of druids on the Wandering Isle itself, don't see that ever happening.
Isn't that pretty much how we ended up with troll druids?
Yes and no; Troll druids were taught by the Raptor Loa. It's the fact that it was a hidden group of Darkspears that came as the surprise. But since the Pandrens have no connection to the Ancients in that way(since it's hypothesized that the Loa may be a type of Ancient), the chance of their being a group devoted to Druidism is that much smaller...especially since the Pandarens were 'gone' from the world when Cenarius started teaching the Tauren and the Night Elves.
Post by
Gilboa2004
as i already posted in another thread - when you roll a monk, you are rolling the disciple of pandaren that came from the pandaran that joined the alliance and the horde. The reason that worgen and goblins can not be monks is because their starting area takes place during cataclysm before the arrival of pandaren.
Post by
Adamsm
Pandaren, not pandaran....
Post by
614479
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Gilboa2004
Pandaren, not pandaran....
yep, exactly. Pandaren
Post by
Adamsm
From a lorestandpoint.. they could easely make the monk fit in. Note that alot of the Pandaren are wanderlust and travel the world seeking ingredients and inspiration for their new brews (Chen Stormbrew is the only known one, but there are others who also traveled). One Pandaren could possible be at the goblin trademarkets for some goods. And another could be shipped goods on a unknown ship in Gilneas where he is trapped (like
Tobias Mistmantle
). Both would be in a situation where there is great distress and for them.. a perfect opportunity to teach the ways of the monk to the willing Worgens and Goblins who need it in that time of distress.
I first whas under the impression the reason they aren't monks are because of the added animations that needed to be done, and their the new race (what also further my thoughts in that the races would get a revamp in Mists). But the animations are just added to the old race models and I even found images from WoW Model Viewer where the Worgen and Goblin have close to finished animations of the monk abilities.There's still the fact that both of those starting zones are phased; and located in areas that the Pandarens couldn't get to: Gilneas is impenetrable till the Cataclysm rips open the harbor, and most races don't visit the Goblin lands since they are meant to be for the short people only. There's also the fact that unless the Goblin Pandaren was captured along with the other members of the Bilgewater Cartel, there would be no reason for them to be on the Lost Isles in the first place.
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