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10.2.7
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10.2.6
Beta
How we really feel
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Post by
Adamsm
I never saw a single post before the beta about anyone saying that it wsn't beta access when it goes live.As soon as the press pass dropped, they set up the new rules for Beta invites.
That only proves to me that most of the 1 million thought it was perfectly clear that you would get access when it goes live.
Again: I've talked to a few people who have the AP, and most of them, while they don't like waiting, still didn't expect to get in right away.
If you knew that they coulden't invite everyone at the same time because the servers would crash, don't you think blizzard knew that too?
They most likely did, so why where they so, according to you, unclear about the specific time you would get in.That falls under Blizzard didn't expect the numbers of people signing up; had there only been a few thousand who got the AP, then it's entirely possible that after the Press and the returning Beta testers, the AP people would have gotten in...but because of the fact it was a million, they had to rework that scenario, which they did, and they told people.
That is what we who didn't get in when we where promised think is wrong and that is why we are making posts about it, And this is where you lose me: You are still getting into Beta, ahead of all of the people who are Opting in. You are not being told 'Oh sorry, but we lied about you getting in Beta, hahahaha.', all you need is some patience.
we are just proving our point that blizzard was wrong and that we are dissapointed in them.Sorry, but I agree with the whining comments; you are still going to get in Beta, oh boo hoo, you have to wait. I got in last week, on the second wave of invites: I wasn't complaining or crying cause I didn't get in the first wave, I'm honestly surprised I got in on the second, as I thought I had a large break in subs at one point.
Post by
Candlekeeper
I never saw a single post before the beta about anyone saying that it wsn't beta access when it goes live.As soon as the press pass dropped, they set up the new rules for Beta invites.
That only proves to me that most of the 1 million thought it was perfectly clear that you would get access when it goes live.
Again: I've talked to a few people who have the AP, and most of them, while they don't like waiting, still didn't expect to get in right away.
If you knew that they coulden't invite everyone at the same time because the servers would crash, don't you think blizzard knew that too?
They most likely did, so why where they so, according to you, unclear about the specific time you would get in.That falls under Blizzard didn't expect the numbers of people signing up; had there only been a few thousand who got the AP, then it's entirely possible that after the Press and the returning Beta testers, the AP people would have gotten in...but because of the fact it was a million, they had to rework that scenario, which they did, and they told people.
That is what we who didn't get in when we where promised think is wrong and that is why we are making posts about it, And this is where you lose me: You are still getting into Beta, ahead of all of the people who are Opting in. You are not being told 'Oh sorry, but we lied about you getting in Beta, hahahaha.', all you need is some patience.
we are just proving our point that blizzard was wrong and that we are dissapointed in them.Sorry, but I agree with the whining comments; you are still going to get in Beta, oh boo hoo, you have to wait. I got in last week, on the second wave of invites: I wasn't complaining or crying cause I didn't get in the first wave, I'm honestly surprised I got in on the second, as I thought I had a large break in subs at one point.
I know im gonna get in to beta, thats not the problem.
This isn't just about me, this is about alot of people who feel dissapointed in blizzard, with all right.
We keep coming back to it and you still can't answer this simple question.
How was I supposed to read the contract?
How is it that so many, according to you, missunderstood the contract?
What is it that you mean we have gotten wrong?
Post by
Adamsm
This isn't just about me, this is about alot of people who feel dissapointed in blizzard, with all right.Honestly, most of those I've seen 'disappointed' have always seemed to be part of that vocal group who screams about everything.
How was I supposed to read the contract?As I'm not in your head, I can't answer that.
How is it that so many, according to you, missunderstood the contract?Because, as I've already agreed, it was badly worded and open to misinterpretation; but I also haven't seen that many yelling about how they expected instant access, especially once those revised rules went out.
What is it that you mean we have gotten wrong?Nothing wrong; but since the set up has changed, going on and on about how Blizzard lied and mislead people, isn't completely true either.
Post by
TheReal
The last I recall, this wasn't about the wording in the contract. The wording in the contract came after the descriptions of the AP. (Or wait, should I say "came WHEN the descriptions of the AP?")
The whole point is that Blizzard pulled a bait-and-switch, whether intentionally or not.
Post by
hatman555
How does
This
not mean that you will be able to play as soon as they announce that beta servers have gone live?
What exactly is it that we have already gotten access to?
You have gotten access to the line to beta.
Disney land opens its doors at 7am. Unless your first in the line, you're still not going to get to ride the rides until 7:30.
Thats not what they said, they said beta, not "queue for beta" what you are saying is untrue to the contract I signed, I remind you once again, they did change the contract and if you look at opening post I have sources indicating what was actually said when most of us signed up.
If you got a pre-booked ticket, you most likely bought it to get in quicker to disney land instead of having to queue to buy your tickets.
We pre-booked MoP beta, why do we have to wait in the ticket sales line?
I'm going to break down the Disney example a bit more for you. Because I think its a good business analogy.
Magic Morning Pass:
Magic Morning early entry allows admission into selected attractions at Disneyland Park before the Park opens to the public. Park Opens at 8am, but with the Magic Morning Pass you can get it at 7am.
You get to the park at 6:45am. Its always better to be Punctual!
Oh no! German tour group got the magic morning pass too?! You are 45th in line.
Park opens at 7am, you run in, and get to the roller coaster, with everyone else.
You are still 45th in line, and the roller coaster only sits 20.
You need to wait 15 minutes before your turn in a line.
You need to wait for the 3rd cycle on the roller coaster before its your turn.
Annual Pass:
You will have access to the new Beta as soon as it goes live! Normally you would need to ask to get in, and then wait for them to choose you. Now you know for sure you got access!
You walk around blizzcon, or you watch the stream some more.
You order Annual pass. Awesome!
What?! German Tour group got really excited and ordered it before you too!
Beta goes live, your account is on the list with everyone else.
You are still behind the German tour group, and the server only can host so many people.
You need to wait a week for the chance to log on
You need to wait until the 3rd round of invites before its your turn.
All in all:
You signed up for Annual Pass
You got beta
You are NOT in the ticket sale line anymore, you are in the queue.
You need to wait for your turn
But you don't need to wait to be selected from the access line, which might either take months,
or never happen.
Cheers,
Hat
p.s. <3 Deutsch Reisegruppen
p.s.s
This Is not tolerated.
(##RESPBREAK##)136##DELIM##hatman555##DELIM##
Post by
Rystrave
^ Great analogy, Hat. I've been lurking on the board since the beginning and saw the fight escalate. Now if people could just learn to wait their turn.
Post by
Adamsm
Now if people could just learn to wait their turn.But they want in Beta
NOOOOOOOOOOWWWWWWW!
Or they just want to feel like Blizzard intentionally lied to them, so they can have a grievance.
Post by
TheReal
snip
Although Rystrave and others feel it's a good analogy, I do not. One of the selling points of AP was "beta access when it goes live," not "beta access AFTER it goes live." Your analogy fits the AFTER part just fine; however, it's not what Morhaime described.
I keep having to come back to this point because it's the source of OP's grief. OP isn't complaining that he/she didn't get into the beta yet. The problem is that OP expected instant beta access because it's how the AP was originally described. When the contract was drafted up to include this:
(iii) flag the Account so that you will automatically receive an invite to the beta test for the next World of Warcraft expansion product
...it was a bait-and-switch. I have yet to see anyone successfully argue against that point, and I believe it's at the heart of OP's grief. Should OP or anyone else who expected instant beta access have read the contract more carefully? Indeed, but Morhaime should have spoken more carefully as well.
Blizzard failed to communicate properly, some players got upset, and now it's the players' fault? I don't see why it's so difficult to admit that the people complaining have a legitimate right to do so even if their expectations
were
a little overzealous.
Post by
Adamsm
A little overzealous?
Post by
TheReal
Fine. Replace my last sentence with "extremely, wildly implausible" and address the rest of the post.
Post by
Adamsm
You have quite blantantly missed out the key to the whole arguement which is that access was guaranteed to the beta when it went live.
There are no ifs or buts about it - the blizzard spokesman was specific in what he said.Which all of the thread agrees that it was said wrong...of course, they are still guaranteed access to the Beta, once their number comes up in the wave.
Post by
hatman555
As a moderator yourself, you should know better than to try and derail a thread.
I encourage you re-read what I wrote. I don't believe I have derailed anything. We are talking about the perception vs. the reaction of users.
You have quite blantantly missed out the key to the whole arguement which is that access was guaranteed to the beta when it went live.The whole argument is is perception vs. reaction. The AP users who do not have beta yet, feel that they have been wronged because they were promised beta access as soon as the beta went live. The reaction they are having is to call blizzard cheaters, liers, and abusers.
My argument is that their perception should change from that of "I didn't get what I was promised" to "I got what I was promised, there are just technical issues which can not be over come, no mater how much I wish they could"
My argument is that their reaction should also change and instead of feeling cheated, understand that blizzard has offered them an amazing thing there, which is BETA access guaranteed. The last wave of AP users are going to have several months of access to the MoP beta. They will be able to play and experience everything to their hearts content.
I was one of MANY users that was finaly able to get Cata Beta 1 week before launch. I know others that didn't get it at all.
There are no ifs or buts about it - the blizzard spokesman was specific in what he said.
What he said, and what would be interpreted are two very different things. I agree, it sounded really good, but I also knew that logistically there would be this wait. So you wait, and then you play beta for 3 months when you get in, and you don't miss anything anyways.
As a moderator, you should not encourage the spread of misinformation - there are enough people doing it in this thread already.
As a moderator, it is my job to moderate conversations on these forums to keep their respectfulness. I do that. As a volunteer and Wowhead user, it is also my right to express my opinion in the best way I know how. The lines often cross, but I truly believe that thought feedback, and other reactions from other users, I am doing a GREAT job.
If you feel that I am not, I suggest you send an email to .
Cheers,
Hat(##RESPBREAK##)136##DELIM##hatman555##DELIM##
Post by
Adamsm
I think there will be a few people surprised to hear that they have agreed that spokesman got it wrong.
Hat's not here as a spokesman, he's here as another user.
Post by
Adamsm
/shrug I don't know, all through out the thread I've seen more in agreement with the stance that Blizzard wasn't intentionally trying to screw over the AP users compared to those who think Blizzard did it on purpose.
Post by
Rystrave
/was going to comment on someone's comment but looks like it suddenly got deleted.
Hmmmmm.
Post by
Candlekeeper
/shrug I don't know, all through out the thread I've seen more in agreement with the stance that Blizzard wasn't intentionally trying to screw over the AP users compared to those who think Blizzard did it on purpose.
Thats because its 10 v 1, there will always be more people who didn't get AP and dsn't understand what I am trying to explain than AP signers.
Post by
yukonjack
I have the annual pass and I have yet to recieve a beta invite. I am ok with that as I fully expected invites to be sent out in waves due to my limited understanding of such technical matters it only seemed logical that the beta servers would crash were they to be opened up to everyone immediately.
I would like to point out to the OP I stated how I feel as an annual pass holder still waiting for a beta invite. While I can see and appreciate your point of view I do not care to be lumped in with it regardless of the fact we are in the same figurative boat.
Post by
161859
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Adamsm
/shrug I don't know, all through out the thread I've seen more in agreement with the stance that Blizzard wasn't intentionally trying to screw over the AP users compared to those who think Blizzard did it on purpose.
Thats because its 10 v 1, there will always be more people who didn't get AP and dsn't understand what I am trying to explain than AP signers.
I think most everyone discussing this did get the AP. The people on the other side of the discussion just don't see it as a big deal.
Aye can't see people without the pass chiming in(other then darkerdesign who uses every chance he can to bash Blizzard).
Post by
idip31
The last I recall, this wasn't about the wording in the contract. The wording in the contract came after the descriptions of the AP. (Or wait, should I say "came WHEN the descriptions of the AP?")
The whole point is that Blizzard pulled a bait-and-switch, whether intentionally or not.
Okay, so I think we've all heard of bait and switch but perhaps we've never fulling understood what it means.
As Google is my personal friend, I used him ...or her? to find some information on the definition of "Bait and Switch." This is what I found.
Source:
Wikipedia Bait and Switch
Bait-and-switch is a form of fraud, most commonly used in retail sales but also applicable to other contexts. First, customers are "baited" by advertising for a product or service at a low price; second, the customers discover that the advertised good is not available and are "switched" to a costlier product.
So... a Bait and Switch occurs when you're told you get one thing, only to find out that it's not available and you have to pay for something more expensive to get what you were told you could get, purchase, or whatever.
The Wikipedia article also has a software company example:
Software companies that initially offer software products or services for free (often under a "Beta" moniker) and at a later point make parts or all of the functionality available only in a paid product without communicating that intention from the start are said to employ bait-and-switch tactics.
But seeing as how many people are not fans of Wikipedia I found another source.
Source:
InvestorWords.com Bait and Switch
An illegal tactic in which a seller advertises a product with the intention of persuading customers to purchase a more expensive product. When a seller uses this tactic, they frequently tell the customer that the original product is sold out or no longer available (even if the product is indeed still available), and push hard for the customer to purchase the costlier product. This tactic can be considered false advertising if the seller is not actually providing the original product, but if the item is available but the seller strongly encourages the customer towards another item, in general no legal action can be taken.
Again, this source states that a bait and switch is when one item is advertised, the seller either sells out or claims it is unavailable and pushes a more expensive item in it's place.
I think we can probably rule out bait and switch with this. One, because the product is still available (Annual Pass with Beta Access). Two, Blizzard is NOT offering an Annual Pass (with INSTANT Beta Access) for an additional price.
I would imagine at best (yes, I'll concede here) that Blizzard advertised this the wrong way. However, any people complaining about lack of Beta Access are also guilty of not fully reading and "Agreeing" to the Terms of Service/Sale/Contract that you are required to Check Yes to Agree when you purchase your Annual Pass.
But, I also see no difference in Blizzard's marketing practices compared to other company's. This is like when you go to the JetBlue website and you see a giant full page ad that merely states "Flights from $49 dollars!" but when you click on it, you find out no flights are leaving from your location to the destination you choose.
CandleKeeper keeps posting a picture of the Mists of Panderia Annual Pass splash page which says Beta Access when the Beta goes live (But not Day One Access). It's great that he saved this screen capture. However, even though he keeps posting it, no matter how many times he posts it and refers to it. That screen capture IS NOT a contract. That screen shot is only an advertisement.
If the contract does not specifically state something you think you should receive... don't count on ever getting it. If it was promised to you, get it in writing signed by both parties. (As an aside I learned this the hard way when having to break an apartment lease, youch!)
For those who don't know, Mike Morhaime, the "spokesman" who said "when," and not, "instant," or, "after" is the President, CEO, and Co-Founder of Blizzard Entertainment.
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