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Racism
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Post by
MyTie
White privilege. If you don't believe white people have it easier on average in America then you clearly know nothing about the world. That is just a fact.
Would you mind being more specific. What specific privileges do I have?
Post by
240140
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
MyTie
I was just wanted you to list some examples of these privileges you assert I have.
Post by
Skreeran
I don't think asking questions like "Are black people more racist than white people?" helps this problem at all.
The problem isn't "Which race is the most racist?", the problem is lumping a large group of people into an easy to categorize set of beliefs, values, and stereotypes based on race--Hispanics are one way and Asians are another, or Blacks think this but Whites think that. Every human being is a unique individual and is entitled to their own beliefs, values, and opinions, and while there are some common threads between individuals, it's unfair and prejudiced to discuss someone's beliefs before you've met them.
Black people can be racist, White people can be racist, Hispanics can be racist, etc. Human individuals can have racist beliefs and prejudices. Discussing "Which race is the most racist" is completely counterproductive and actually prejudiced in itself by generalizing the philosophical values of a group of humans by which genetic family they fit into. I'm a White Male American Gun-Owning Atheist Feminist Army Veteran. I had a Black bunkmate in the Army who was my best friend and liked video games and wanted to be a surgeon. Every demographic in the world is composed of unique individuals, and they deserve to be treated as such, instead of categorizing their values by their skin color.
Post by
wrlwnd
Well we definitely have very divergent views on racism. That's for sure.
As I see it the definition that EluraE uses is the first one below. I believe MyTie looks more at the third one below as I do.
from
here
1.
a belief or doctrine that inherent differences among the various human races determine cultural or individual achievement, usually involving the idea that one's own race is superior and has the right to rule others.
2.
a policy, system of government, etc., based upon or fostering such a doctrine; discrimination.
3.
hatred or intolerance of another race or other races.
The third definition was the one I thought about when I responded earlier and is the one that I will always use.
Post by
240140
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
MyTie
I don't think asking questions like "Are black people more racist than white people?" helps this problem at all.
The problem isn't "Which race is the most racist?", the problem is lumping a large group of people into an easy to categorize set of beliefs, values, and stereotypes based on race--Hispanics are one way and Asians are another, or Blacks think this but Whites think that--every human being is a unique individual and is entitled to their own beliefs, values, and opinions, and while there are some common threads between individuals, it's unfair and prejudiced to discuss someone's beliefs before you've met them.
Black people can be racist, White people can be racist, Hispanics can be racist, etc. Human individuals can have racist beliefs and prejudices. Discussing "Which race is the most racist" is completely counterproductive and actually prejudiced in itself by generalizing the philosophical values of a particular genetic family of humans. I'm a White Male American Gun-Owning Atheist Feminist Army Veteran. I had a Black bunkmate in the Army who was my best friend and liked video games and wanted to be a surgeon. Every demographic in the world is composed of unique individuals, and they deserve to be treated as such, instead of categorizing their values by their skin color.
I actually agree with all of this. My question is in the context of the original assertion, made by the Obama nomination. I think it's repulsive, but his assertion, while repugnant, is self condemning if the evidence is examined... which is where I was going.... not "look how racist X group is".You. Have. Privileges. For. Being. White.
You'll have an easier time getting hired, based on skin color. You'll get paid more, based on skin color. You're not as likely to get convicted for a crime you've committed. based on skin color. You're not as likely to get as much time in jail if you do get convicted, based on skin color. You won't get shot by the cops because they suspect you of a crime you haven't commited, based on skin color. Racial profiling won't affect you, based on skin color. I can go on forever.
And before you go "but once a black man got paid more than me!" that just means he got past the privilege and he most likely had to work harder than you for it anyway. And before you go "bu I had (insert bad thing) happen to me, I'm not privileged!" yes you are, because if the exact same thing happened to you and you were black, you'd have that problem plus many more.
Blows my mind that people don't know what white privilege is. You should hear the words and it should be completely clear.
If there were some way that I could demonstrate that I haven't benefited from the privileges you assert I have, is it possible that I, too, cannot be racist, since I will have suffered oppression?
Post by
240140
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
MyTie
If there were some way that I could demonstrate that I haven't benefited from the privileges you assert I have, is it possible that I, too, cannot be racist, since I will have suffered oppression?
There is literally no way that you do not have white privilege. As I said in an alternate universe maybe there would be black privilege, but we don't live in an alternate universe.
You didn't answer the question.
Post by
240140
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Nathanyal
So just because I vote for a white guy, I'm furthering racism. Even though I believe the black guy is doing a terrible job and the white guy would do a much better job.
How messed up does that sound?
On another note, is there such a thing as (and I'm not sure how to put it) inverted racism?
I watched a movie where the black guy would point this out, such as while at a diner the waitress would take his order first and refill his coffee but ignore his white friend. People would acknowledge him but not the white friend with him. They would do all sorts of things because he was a black guy. And he would point it out, saying "why you doing that, because I'm black?".
I know the movie was making fun of it, but do people really think there is something like that?
Post by
Gone
I think the idea that blacks can't be racist against whites is wrong. Racism is a societal problem, but that doesn't mean it's
only
a societal problem. As a whole the idea of the black race being racist towards the white race is silly, yes. But saying that only lumps blacks and whites further into a stereotype. With that logic you have the black as the victims, and the whites as the oppressors. And this simply isn't the way the world works.
Most of the time, racism takes place on an individual level. It's not about political party A hating political party B, or race X being oppressive towards race Y. It's about Steve having a negative predisposition towards Dave, or Molly being prejudiced against Mark. I'm not saying that racism doesn't take place at a societal level, but that doesn't diminish the individual aspect of it.
In this situation, minorities are just as prone to racism as white people, maybe even more so. The fact that a person might have an excuse for being prejudiced, does't make it any less prejudice. I know a man who lived on the street that I grew up on, that absolutely hated Mexican people. I found out a few years ago that the reason for this was because he was beaten up and stabbed by a bunch of them when he was young. That he had a reason for being biased against this race doesn't make his feelings and actions any less racist. In the same way, a black man having a negative predisposition towards white people because the black race has historically been oppressed by whites, is also racist. The black man and the guy on my street are both using a similar excuse to justify their prejudice, but by definition prejudice is a preconceived opinion, not based on reason.
Post by
Monday
Well we definitely have very divergent views on racism. That's for sure.
So, tell me, in what ways am I benefiting from past racism?
White privilege. If you don't believe white people have it easier on average in America then you clearly know nothing about the world. That is just a fact.
Believing white privilege to come purely from slavery is just as telling of one's knowledge of the world as not believing in said white privilege. Slavery wasn't unique to America, nor was the idea that white man was superior unique to America either. It stretches far back into the Medieval periods and possibly to Rome.
Post by
432158
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Gone
White privilege certainly exists, but I don't think the way to combat it is with things like giving preferential treatment to minority students on college apps or with jobs, or saying that minorities can't be racist against whites. All that is going to lead to is a generation of even more compounded white guilt than the one we have now.
Post by
Skreeran
The only solution I can think of is the majority of people discarding race as a tool for judging character. I can't force people to do so, so I try to just lead by example.
Post by
Gone
Things are certainly better now than they have been in the past, I think we're moving in the right direction at least. Although there is always going to be something that people are judged for.
If we're still around in another thousand years there probably won't even be any more races, people will have intermingled so much we'll all just be one blend.
Post by
Skreeran
Things are certainly better now than they have been in the past, I think we're moving in the right direction at least. Although there is always going to be something that people are judged for.
If we're still around in another thousand years there probably won't even be any more races, people will have intermingled so much we'll all just be one blend.Unless we get more isolated. If we put a colony on Mars, for example, they'll probably end up with their own cuisine, language, and racial makeup.
But I suppose that's not particularly relevant in the here and now.
Post by
MrMojoRisin
You'll have an easier time getting hired, based on skin color. You'll get paid more, based on skin color. You're not as likely to get convicted for a crime you've committed. based on skin color. You're not as likely to get as much time in jail if you do get convicted, based on skin color. You won't get shot by the cops because they suspect you of a crime you haven't commited, based on skin color. Racial profiling won't affect you, based on skin color. I can go on forever.
Not only is this simply an opinion, but it is simply wrong. Whites have lower unemployment and higher wages because they are less likely to choose to accept living off welfare as an acceptable way of life. There are more blacks in prisons because more crimes are committed by blacks. Cops rarely shoot people for no reason, black or white. If you believe otherwise, you watch too much TV. Racial profiling will only not affect you if you are white, if the profile they are following is for a black. If the cops are looking for a white suspect, your chances of being racially profiled as a white guy are much higher than if you are black.
I'm not gonna check this thread again
Really, you should have stuck with your original plan.
Post by
MyTie
Welcome to off topic, mrmojo. I'm very happy that you are here, and even happier that you are participating. Don't expect that everyone will agree with you, but just stand your ground, be respectful of others (even when they are not respectful to you), and you'll fit right in.
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