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Item you would most like to see as the first legendary of MoP
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Post by
Interest
It should end up being a quest chain like Quel'Delar. Choices made through the chain determine what sort of weapon it will end up being (Polearm for Monks, 2handed sword/axe/mace for DK's, 1handed sword/axe/mace for Warriors and Paladins).
Yay Hunters are chopped liver again. We're never getting a legendary.
(!)
Hunters have already had a legendary, even if it's a bit out dated by now. Tanks have had one from the very beginning of the game. Casters have had two now. Two handed strength DPS have had one. And a very few lucky people have Corrupted Ashbringer.
There has never been an explicit tank legendary. (The only reason Thunderfury was, was because of the awesome threat it produced at a time when keeping threat was actually challenging. Which it isn't challenging anymore, except for initial pull.)
I think they could come in with a quest chain like Quel'Delar (albeit more difficult; don't want it too easy like the latest and greatest legendary). This time they could flavor it towards a higher survivability for tanks who acquire it instead of leaning it towards DPS/threat.
You're failing to get the joke.
So was Thori'dal! It was BiS. We've gone over this.
It was BiS for an endgame tier where it did close to nothing for Hunters that actually got it. Woop de do, you can clear content you already cleared faster but can't exactly do any new content with it (unlike every other legendary, unless I'm wrong about Atiesh, although I think it was viable into tier 4). Oh wait, you might run out of ammo during the alt Karazhan run you're carrying. Better fix that!
Legendaries in PvP is another discussion altogether, but even discounting that, I don't think you should judge the quality of a PvE item by it's effect on PvP.
Yet they have such a profound effect(heck even non-legendary PvE weapons are having an effect on the PvP endgame at this point - Gurth says hi?). Excluding that fact from the discussion would be like cutting out a whole reason someone might want to get and use the legendary weapon.
Agreed. But again, I don't think it's enough to make Thori'dal not legendary.
Well then we're going to have to agree to disagree. Also, if perhaps only a
few
things were wrong with Thori'dal (like poor tier placement by itself, which is why I had
less
of a problem during Wrath of the Lich King with it - I even used it to do dailies!), then of course it wouldn't disqualify it from legendary status. The fact that there are so many things wrong with Thori'dal at the present, combined with the past issues that previously might not have disqualified the status of the weapon clearly degrades the quality of the weapon in my opinion and does truly give me leverage to say Thori'dal isn't legendary in the slightest. In short, I was already concerned about Thori'dal status back during early tier 7, but steadily as new ammunition came out and then the final hammer of the Cataclysm nerf that resulted in the most unhelpful equip effect ever on a legendary weapon really nailed the coffin shut on its legendary status.
I don't see how internal guild drama has anything to do with how good a legendary is?
Obviously what I'm trying to say is your argument is invalid since Thori'dal was actually given to a class that couldn't use it viably, but there was no such record of that happening with your example legendaries. Don't try to deflect.
It's funny that you mention TF, because they nerfed the proc during BC, making it less powerful. Should this make anyone think less of TF? Not really, because when it was nerfed, it was a whole expansion later. It doesn't matter what they do to gear that is obsolete anyway. (I am aware the reason they nerfed TF was that it was still being used in BC content - something that should not happen)
This is true. Someone I knew was ACTIVELY TANKING tier 6 content with it. The fact it even had to be nerfed speaks volumes for how strong the legendary itself was. I can only wish Thori'dal could've ever achieved that level of greatness. To be fair, however, I think Thunderfury's threat generation power was an issue with balancing on Blizzard's end too, but who knows?
Anyway, my point is this: you can't judge Thori'dal because of something that happened 2 and a half years or so after it was released, that's just silly. It was always going to be obsolete by then.
I guess that's where the opinions differ then. I think the Cataclysm changes really hurt Thori'dal's status as a legendary and I'm pretty much gonna stick by it.
You can however judge it by it's design at the time it came out, and I think it's fair to say that even at the time, it wasn't great. It was useless for PvE progression, being on the last boss and all, and in terms of usefullness (the only terms I think worth discussing here), it probably ranks 2nd from bottom. You're right about the lore for it sucking, too. But just being bad for a legendary does not somehow make it not a legendary. It was rare. It was BiS. It still had things no other item had.
But that's the fact of the matter, even when it was around it was close to useless. I mean, heck, the equip effect itself might as well have read "you spend as much money to raid as other classes now." (Okay, that's a little extreme), but it did really suck for reasons I previously mentioned and I guess that's where opinions differ again, because, as I said, I was concerned about the status of it being a legendary much more than other legendary weapons even a short time after it came out (you know, after the whole "omg Hunter legendary" thing wore off and I enjoyed my Wrath pre-patch insanity).
(hey there Val'nyr!)
I'm going to disagree. While I will concede the healing mace wasn't particularly a good legendary, it was at least useful for tier 8 (Algalon, assuming the guild hasn't done it yet as well as hardmodes) and a good amount of tier 9 (up until ToGC equipment obsoleted it, I think). Heck, even in ICC tier I did see a few maces in use (although my server was bad and very clear got through ToGC). But to be fair, I never ever remember the weapon being used in a PvP setting (except maybe Battlegrounds, but that really doesn't count for much). Pretty sure that ranks higher than Thori'dal, which was useful for a grand total of < 1 tier (assuming you count farm clears of Sunwell or something).
tl;dr : Thori'dal, not very good for a legendary, still a legendary.
TL;DR, I guess we're going to have to agree to disagree. =(
Edit: Don't respond to this - wait until I write a blog article on it then you can make counterarguments if you wish.
Edit: 2 seconds of randomly asking people about Valanyr and I got this: : it was the best healing weap from ulduar through icc, so 3 tiers.....
Post by
479137
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Problimatic
Buying a legendary from the Blizzard store... that has to be one of the most ridiculous suggestions I have ever heard.
How could you even call it legendary when probably at least 10% of the player base would own it on day one?
Not what I said. I said that if you want access to the Legendary, you should pony up and pay for it. Then you can go through the grind after grind, and probably not get it anyway.
Just like "Heroic" mode. Pony up and pay for it yourself. Then you can get your moneys worth wiping over and over.
I'm pretty sure thats covered in the subscription fee. Blizz makes content, we get to play on their servers with the content.
Post by
479137
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
331902
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
karatechop
I'd like a hunter item...even though i don't get to raid too often
Post by
670547
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
479137
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Interest
So about that Thori'dal article I said I would write
. Here it is, people who were discussing it with me are free to follow up now.
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