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Human Nature vs. WoW's loot systems
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Post by
138583
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
zethcarn
There needs to be some kind of DKP system for LFR (keep it in the currency tab). Make each boss worth ~10 DKP. When an item drops that you want you place one (and only one) bid for however much you are willing to gamble/lose. The highest bidder wins the item. Simple as that. There is absolutely nothing at ALL complex about a system like this and it would be 100x times better than the current system.
Keep in mind this is only for the NEED option. The GREED option would still use a random roll.
Post by
Interest
I am a complex man with wicked, very often, contradicting personality, but this time i am completely consistent.
It may seem out of order to you, but notice the word "usually" in the part you bolded.
Okay, just making sure.
Its riskless, win-win situation. Although there is an option someone may still feel tricked and dont believe your good motives - you cant make everyone happy and as long as you realise that and people attacking you wont make you upset, its safe.
Its acting dishonest and cheating (abusing the loot system sort of) to achieve good results.
Except the problem is not everyone will do that. As I mentioned before, you're putting it to the honesty of players. However, although I do say in one of my blog articles that you, as a player, should try to be as honest as possible, that simply isn't going to happen 100% of the time (probably not even half the time). The intentions are great. I love it and might consider trying to do it myself, but it still doesn't resolve to root issue that LFR simply has issues with the loot system
In addition, I think you're completely misinterpreting my statements, so let me make it completely clear:
-The purpose of my ideas to improve LFR is to patch up holes in the system (AFKing, the queue's design)
-The loot system, while it is a bit better than the original 4.3 version, should receive some fixes from Blizzard's side - in the end they do win because they'll receive more praise and it's less strain for their Game Masters. In addition, the particular case of "specialization and class" tags might be extremely handy for other things.
-I propose some ways to fix said loot system
that won't require players to have to intervene,
like you imply. Attempting to even make such a comparison is just comparing apples and oranges.
-These fixes attempt to resolve the
ROOT ISSUES.
Also i am aware that not all faulty mechanics in the world and games are fixable
and even though I wouldnt mind that, its not the first thing in the morning i think about.
People will Need roll on certain item to ensure the
faulty mechanics of LFR loot
aint applied ...
Exactly, and that's what I'm trying to resolve (by offering suggestions)
Incidentally, to make the contradiction seem clearer:
No such thing as honest players or honest people any more.
People will Need rol
l on certain item to ensure the faulty mechanics of LFR loot aint applied
and will trade it to the person next in roll
as long as the person: has proper spec to use the item (shaman, druids dps issue) and doesnt have the item already.
Hopefully I've made some things clearer.
Post by
138583
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Interest
Incidentally, to make the contradiction seem clearer:
No such thing as honest players or honest people any more.
People will Need rol
l on certain item to ensure the faulty mechanics of LFR loot aint applied
and will trade it to the person next in roll
as long as the person: has proper spec to use the item (shaman, druids dps issue) and doesnt have the item already.
Hopefully I've made some things clearer.
Honest behaviour from time to time doesnt make you a honest person all of a sudden.
True, but the implication shows that it's unlikely to happen, which in and of itself, contradicts your idea. Sure, it's beneficial for those few people who get lucky and have someone who suddenly decides to show an act of kindness, but what about the rest of the people who have loot taken from then?
Post by
479137
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
138583
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Onijitsu
I'm very pleased to see all of the interest in this thread.
Honest behaviour from time to time doesnt make you a honest person all of a sudden.
True. Honesty is a matter of consistency... true honesty has another name: Integrity.
However, in the context of WoW, what is "honesty"? Does that include passing on items which the game developers (by design) allow you to roll NEED on, because you are applying some external (if social) expectation about looting?
Perhaps, from one perspective, a "DPS Druid" rolling on an agility trinket, while he is playing a boomkin, is "perfectly honest" in Blizzard's Eyes.
Personally, however? I think that Blizzard already goes to a certain amount of effort to create these items with the right stat balance for the tier of gear, with the right design, with the right visual effects even. How much harder would it be to go down a list of checkboxes (30 or 31, one box for each possible spec within each class, and possibly giving 4 boxes to Druids) and decide who can and cannot have a given item? End of dispute. It's a very simple solution. It seems to me that Blizzard overthought and underdeveloped the current system.
Blizzard has always taken a light stance on exploiting, cheating and anti-social behavior.
Agreed. This is because, a) This kind of behavior is so rampant, and b) Because Blizzard profits from it.
Honestly, I feel a certain measure of despair to realize that our society is so full of self-justified avarice and petty, self-serving meanness of spirit. Between the way I see people act in WoW, the way I see them act when driving, and the way I see them act while shopping on "Black Friday"…? It makes me feel like, if some major catastrophic event affected our society, it wouldn't take very much at all to turn most of us into vicious, homicidal maniacs. Perhaps, even cannibals. In such a situation you could "maintain your individual moral code" but allow them to roll over you. Or, you could maintain your individual moral code AND be armed to the teeth, ready to handle anything.
I guess, coming back to WoW from this analogy, my compromise is that I will grab what Blizzard has designated (by design) that I can grab, and then toss loot at people I feel are deserving. Perhaps even, barter for items I want.
Post by
138583
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Onijitsu
He didint say that, i did. About integrity - no such thing as objective integrity. Everything is subjective, that includes honesty and integrity. Unless we look at people that are either black or white no judgement can really be made. People are complex, unless they are mentally insane their behaviour is always cosistent with their moral code, you cant just look at yourself and judge other the same way - they differ, whats integrity in your definition may be something completely different in definition of someone else and vice versa.
Now we're into semantic debate about Relative vs. Absolute morality. And no, people do not always (or consistently) act according to their moral code. The best of men (and women) tend to hold to a moral code which is harder to attain than others. And as such, they may not always be consistent, but at least they aspire to a higher standard.
However, in the context of WoW, what is "honesty"? Does that include passing on items which the game developers (by design) allow you to roll NEED on, because you are applying some external (if social) expectation about looting?
Perhaps, from one perspective, a "DPS Druid" rolling on an agility trinket, while he is playing a boomkin, is "perfectly honest" in Blizzard's Eyes.
He is, rolling Need is the only way he can get that offspec, just like other classes roll need on offspec items. Its not his fault Blizzard gives him role bonus where in fact he shouldnt get one.
Well, but this part bugs me. An Enhance Shaman is Agility-based. An Elemental Shaman is Intellect-based. Two totally different systems and stat priorities. The two really ought to be separated, even if they are both DPSing. It implies a certain amount of either laziness or stupidity, or instead perhaps a malign desire to see the dogs tear each other apart in the pits, that Blizzard has created a system as broken as this.
"Some men just want to see the world burn."
Post by
Interest
I'm very pleased to see all of the interest in this thread.
Honest behaviour from time to time doesnt make you a honest person all of a sudden.
True. Honesty is a matter of consistency... true honesty has another name: Integrity.
You need to sort out nested quote tags properly =).
Wow. 69000 posts on THIS board of all places?
Post by
303152
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Interest
I roll NEED on everything I can, period. If it is not an upgrade I will DE or vendor it. Did I not top the healing charts on every fight? Did I not do 35% of the total healing done? Did I not earn a chance to roll? Should I be forced to pass to the 5 DPS or 2 healers that AFKed 99% of the fight? Why should I ever come and basically carry several people if I am not allowed a chance at gear?
Why should I ever pass? I need enchanting mats/Gold just as much as you "need" gear. If I pass and let you get gear, you probably will not come back next week, as now there would be no reward for you to come. Unless once your have main-spec gear, it is suddenly OK to roll need on a second or "off-spec" set of gear? If you really were in LFR for anything other than, greedily gearing up yourself only, you don't care about gear.
Face it, if there is no reward people just won't come and NO ONE will get to LFR! Forcing geared people to not be able to roll on gear, means LFR will be filled with AFKers/failed runs, as people with gear that carry raids, just won’t bother to come anymore. It will be PVPing without being able to report people AFK, most will just huddle in the "cave" and AFK for honor, er whatever points. That is in the rare case the 50% of people actually trying to play, can ever kill a boss. At which point AFKers will be back demanding YOU pass as there low performance clearly shows they need the gear more than you, who actually worked for it…
And this is why LFR needs some changes in the future.
Post by
zethcarn
I roll NEED on everything I can, period. If it is not an upgrade I will DE or vendor it. Did I not top the healing charts on every fight? Did I not do 35% of the total healing done? Did I not earn a chance to roll? Should I be forced to pass to the 5 DPS or 2 healers that AFKed 99% of the fight? Why should I ever come and basically carry several people if I am not allowed a chance at gear?
Why should I ever pass? I need enchanting mats/Gold just as much as you "need" gear. If I pass and let you get gear, you probably will not come back next week, as now there would be no reward for you to come. Unless once your have main-spec gear, it is suddenly OK to roll need on a second or "off-spec" set of gear? If you really were in LFR for anything other than, greedily gearing up yourself only, you don't care about gear.
Face it, if there is no reward people just won't come and NO ONE will get to LFR! Forcing geared people to not be able to roll on gear, means LFR will be filled with AFKers/failed runs, as people with gear that carry raids, just won’t bother to come anymore. It will be PVPing without being able to report people AFK, most will just huddle in the "cave" and AFK for honor, er whatever points. That is in the rare case the 50% of people actually trying to play, can ever kill a boss. At which point AFKers will be back demanding YOU pass as there low performance clearly shows they need the gear more than you, who actually worked for it…
And this is why LFR needs some changes in the future.
Agreed.
Post by
451227
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
303152
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
451227
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
303152
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Xsound
I agree for the most part. Just stop ninjaing items that isn't yours. That is exactly why that in your next raid/dungeon you are going to wipe because someone cant push enough dps, healing or tank good enough because they dont have the gear piece you ninjaed.
I have given items away at the end of an LFR raid. Heck, if I have zero use for them, why not? At that point, I can pick the person whom I feel is the most deserving.
And you totally lost me. Who are you to decide who is the most deserving? What if 3 people deserves it, do you tell them to roll? What if one of them left before you could tell him? How do you tell who deserves it? Numbers (healing, dps, activity etc) or by how big an upgrade it would be? No, rolling is the most fair, but people should stop ninjaing. You, or someone like you, could quite possibly be the reason why I have lost so many items.
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