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Does anyone have a list of the number of appearances of the Lich King in Northrend?
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Post by
126061
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
JustRob
Which are both lvl 85 content. As a new player, you watch the cinematic and you think, wow cool Deathwing! And you want to see him. But the only thing you see is the result of his emerging from underground, namely the Cataclysm. Deathwing is hardly even mentioned in quests.
And then when you hit 85, when you've probably long forgotten who Deathwing even was, you see him a few times. And even less if you're not a raider.
Don't spew bull$%^& please, he shows up during the quest in TH which is a leveling area for 84-85, you see him summon ragnaros the moment you go quest in MH, which is available at 80 (though this is a rather meager confrontation, it does show he's busy building an army), there's a few quests revolving around him in deepholm iirc and the only appearance of him you can only see as a raider is during the DWTR quest, I don't think you should count the actual encounter in DS as something only raiders get to see since LFR is pretty much doable by anyone even if you sit afk during the whole raid.
Compared to Classic villains it's about the same, those weren't shown while questing at all but most had some sort of quests or (a) dungeon(s) revolving around them at about the same rate as Deathwing has, Illidan barely had anythign related at all, you didn't see him at all, though there was a questline or 2 around BT and as others have said, Arthas showed up numerous times, to the point it got more of a nuisance, you'd think after the 10th time or so he'd say "oh screw it, you've been thwarting my plans too much now, I'm killing you." but he just lets you go every single time, which pretty much ruins his portrayal.
Wow, 84-85. So that's only 83 levels until you get to see the main villain of the game, cool! You don't really see him summon Ragnaros, Ragnaros is just there and then suddenly there's Deathwing flying around doing nothing. What a grand display of power. There's a few quests in Deepholm where he's mentioned, he never actually appears.
Classic WoW never had a main villain, it was more about the world in general. If an expansion is centered around a certain bad guy, then that bad guy should make lots of appearances. And not only in the last three levels of the game and in raids, but spread throughout the entire game.
Arthas let you live because his plan was to raise the players as his army. Didn't you hear him say "exactly as I intended" in Icecrown Citadel?
Post by
Rankkor
Classic WoW never had a main villain, it was more about the world in general. If an expansion is centered around a certain bad guy, then that bad guy should make lots of appearances
I disagree.
A villain showing up and not doing anything, only serves to make him a cartoonish villain, like the lich king was on WOTLK.
"Ohhh I'm so big and strong, but I shalt taunt thee and and bait thee into mine house"
Deathwing doesn't show up more often due to several reasons.
A: he doesn't have a base of power, no big stronghold to make his home, no land that he call his. To survive, he stays on the move, and the only reason he's even at wyrmrest temple, is because he wishes to take the dragon soul for himself.
B: He's completely insane, if we ever met face to face, he wouldn't do the silly taunt routine of the lich king, he would f*bleep*ing end you. The only reason he doesn't kill you on Twilight Highlands is because he's busy fighting alextrazsa, and even after he defeats her, the only thing we can do is run.
C: He doesn't show up on the lowbie zones for the same reasons as B; because he would kill you.
Me, I prefer it when villains only show up to actually fight, and wreck havoc.
A villain that shows up only to taunt loses his intimidation.
Post by
Adamsm
From Arthas: Rise of the Lich King:
"We are one, Arthas. Together, we are the Lich King. No more Ner'zhul, no more Arthas-- only this one glorious being. With my knowledge, we can--"
His eyes bulged as the sword impaled him.
Arthas stepped forward, plunging the glittering, hungering Frostmourne ever deeper into the dream-being that had once been Ner'zhul, then the Lich King, and was soon to be nothing, nothing at all. He slipped his other arm around the body, pressing his lips so close to the green ear that the gesture was almost intimate, as intimate as the act of taking a life always was and always would be.
"No," Arthas whispered. "No we. No one tells me what to do. I've got everything I need from you-- now the power is mine and mine alone. Now there is only I. I am the Lich King. And I am ready."
The orc shuddered in his arms, stunned by the betrayal, and vanished.
I think this pretty well establishes that the Lich King is in fact Arthas, and not some cojoined being of him and Ner'zhul.Except.....the Blues came out and said that the Lich King we faced was a merged version of Arthas and Ner'zhul, shortly after Rise of the Lich King was launched. And if anything, that proves the point of gestalt; Arthas took Ner'zhul's memories to create the new and more powerful Lich King.
Once again, what about the armor that is still within the ice when the Lich king speaks?
http://i44.tinypic.com/1231kdg.png
See that? Arthas is standing right before the Lich King's prison, fully clad in Plate of the Damned, and yet there's another set of armor with Ner'Zhul right inside the prison. What is that then? Decoration?
If Bolvar was afraid he'd fall as Arthas did, he wouldn't have put the helmet on in the first place. And if Ner'zhul's spirit was within that armor on Arthas' dead body, they would have taken it off and put it on Bolvar.
I don't see Arthas in that picture, and that's the Helm of Dominion in there....you know, the same thing the Lich King is wearing?
Which are both lvl 85 content. As a new player, you watch the cinematic and you think, wow cool Deathwing! And you want to see him. But the only thing you see is the result of his emerging from underground, namely the Cataclysm. Deathwing is hardly even mentioned in quests.
And then when you hit 85, when you've probably long forgotten who Deathwing even was, you see him a few times. And even less if you're not a raider.
Well other then the fact that Deathwing is still there on the log in screen of course.
Arthas let you live because his plan was to raise the players as his army. Didn't you hear him say "exactly as I intended" in Icecrown Citadel?Maybe that was referring to the fact he wanted us to finally kill him to shut him the hell up after all those stupid speeches in the zones lol.
Post by
JustRob
Wow, that's your excuse? He doesn't show up because he kills you?
He didn't kill Rhonin in DotD. He didn't kill King Terenas and the monarchs of the Alliance. Onyxia didn't kill Bolvar and everyone in Stormwind Keep.
Deathwing was always known not only for his power, but also for his cunning. How awesome would it have been to have a long quest-chain in the lower levels, spanning several zones, and finding out at the end that you've been used by Deathwing all the time?
How awesome would it have been for Deathwing to infiltrate the Horde or the Alliance and attempt to destroy them from inside out? Lots of opportunities too, he could have set it up for Garrosh to think the Forsaken were doublecrossing him or whatever.
Anything better then showing up 2 or 3 times and doing almost nothing to the player.
Post by
Adamsm
Anything better then showing up 2 or 3 times and doing almost nothing to the player.
But the Lich King did that, constantly......
Post by
JustRob
Yes and it was cool.
Post by
Adamsm
Why? I mean really; okay, Deathwing shows and is focused on the bigger picture, such as bringing Rag back or dueling Alexstraza, but that is 'lame' cause he doesn't notice the insignificant bug on the ground?
But the Lich King showing up, and constantly holding the idiot ball all through Northrend was cool? In the Tundra, not sticking around to help the Blood Prince against one of the more prominent free Death Knights. In the Fjord, just laughing and sending us back to our bodies, rather then actively trying to stop us from finding out the origins of the Vrykul. In ZD, laughing as his base of operations is completely destroyed rather then remaining to assist Drakuru. All across Icecrown....even knowing that we are actively working on finding out about him, he still does nothing, and is driven back by Tirion and Darion. UP; should have stuck around. HoR....yeah not even gonna mention that; running that place, it really wasn't 'oh crap' it was 'walk the *!@# faster!'. The only place where doing nothing to us makes even the tiniest bit of sense was in DTK, since he had offered us a job in addition to Drakuru.
Post by
JustRob
Insignificant bug on the ground? In the aftermath of the Second War, Deathwing vowed to keep an eye out for Rhonin because he displayed such willpower, such as he had only seen in the likes of Medivh, a name even Deathwing apparently feared. Deathwing did not underestimate his enemies, whether they were mortal or not. He went to great lengths in order to be crowned king of Alterac and alienate the Kirin Tor from the Alliance, because he knew that only wizards had a chance of finding out who he really was.
See, the thing about the Lich King is he underestimates us, and rightfully so. Because what would happen if the Lich King would stick around? We would die. He was about to kill Tirion Fordring when Darion interfered and gave him the Ashbringer.
And I don't see what your problem is with HoR, finally he does try to kill you and it's not good either? Just what do you want? The Lich King showing up, razing you through with Frostmourne and then a big fat game over screen saying YOU LOSE?
I think the Lich King underestimated us, then when he saw our potential he decided to let us come and raise us as his champions.
Post by
Adamsm
Insignificant bug on the ground? In the aftermath of the Second War, Deathwing vowed to keep an eye out for Rhonin because he displayed such willpower, such as he had only seen in the likes of Medivh, a name even Deathwing apparently feared. Deathwing did not underestimate his enemies, whether they were mortal or not. He went to great lengths in order to be crowned king of Alterac and alienate the Kirin Tor from the Alliance, because he knew that only wizards had a chance of finding out who he really was.Yes actually, we are bugs compared to the actual Lore Heroes.
See, the thing about the Lich King is he underestimates us, and rightfully so. Because what would happen if the Lich King would stick around? We would die. He was about to kill Tirion Fordring when Darion interfered and gave him the Ashbringer. Which is the main issue; I felt no threat in the interactions...and the cheesy lines didn't help either.
And I don't see what your problem is with HoR, finally he does try to kill you and it's not good either? Just what do you want? The Lich King showing up, razing you through with Frostmourne and then a big fat game over screen saying YOU LOSE?Once you get past the first two bosses, HoR became a major snooze fest; I would have liked to seen him go a little bit faster. My very first time in there, with a semi-undergeared group, and we got the achievement without using the then active bug of standing behind him. Like I said, with him just plodding along like that, there wasn't a huge threat.
I think the Lich King underestimated us, then when he saw our potential he decided to let us come and raise us as his champions.
And I think, because of that goodness retcon, he was turned into a massive joke.
Post by
keyur
well personally I feel blizz didnt gave justice to Deathwing in game. In novel he described awesome. If you only play game and dont read novels, forums or materials from internet we have to admit that person dont have much idea what the hack is Deathwing.
For LK he described far far well than Deathwing in game. Reasons 3 major expansions for LK in Warcraft. Reign of Choas, Frozen Throne and Wrath of Lich King. Even if you dont read single novel you have most idea about Lich King.
For Deathwing Blizz made three major novels(which is really good if you didnt read it I suggest you should)+one major expansion. But in game Blizz lack of creativity, innovation to describe Deathwing. Perhaps few good cutscene like Wrathgate might help. Ok ok there is one cutscene in Twight Highland but that is not good enough. As you guys mentioned Deathwing did many terrible things but actually Blizz need to show those things in game. Now you ask what was Cataclysm then? It was just patch in which whole world changed in few mins(well it feels like that). How Azeroth changed BY Deathwing need to be well shown in game. Most of time Deathwing uses his Puppets to deal with different things - you know he lack the personality,attitude like LK. Standing alone at wrathgate infront of Horde+Alliance or holding frostmourne while saying "
Let them come Forstmourne hungers
"
For Deathwing it feel likes good character played by bad actor.
Post by
keyur
A villain showing up and not doing anything, only serves to make him a cartoonish villain, like the lich king was on WOTLK.
"Ohhh I'm so big and strong, but I shalt taunt thee and and bait thee into mine house"
I disagree
By not showing himself and let people predict "he is gonna be so so strong because he is aspect and we simply cant face him" - Doest make any sense to me. If he is so greaaaat and powerful atleast make few examples with personal touch in storyline(doesnt matter it is from questing, cutscene or what so ever) so average player feel deathwing is villain - not just accept it like "its cata in which deathwing is villain"
Deathwing is not that great like Sargeras or Old gods whom people dont want to see him face to face.
Post by
skumbananer
Lich King might be a cartoon villain type of character, but at least he is a character. He was someone in the expansion, someone you had a connection to, someone important and was a adult person with a personality, motivation and thought.
Deathwing is just some d-bag with the mentallity and depth of a three-year old during a tantrum.
Post by
870547
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Rankkor
He's not much of a big bad then, is he...To survive, the dragon that nearly ripped the planet in half, well he's gotta stay on the run because you never know, he might run into a rag tag band of adventurers. Seriously, it's not like he couldn't have hunkered down in the firelands and gathered forces. Not buying the "wanted man" excuse.
he is paranoid. Despite his immense powers, he has a massive case of "Genre Savvyness" and knows that if his son and his daughter could be killed by random bunches of adventurers then so can he.
Stay in one place for long, and the armies of the horde and/or alliance WILL chase you and kill you. He already saw how well the "lets bunk up on our stronghold" tactic worked for ragnaros, lich king, ect, he aint about to make the same mistake.
The only reason he attacks Wyrmrest Temple is out of desperation, because he is OBSESSED with that dragon soul disk. The moment he saw that his enemies could use it, he fled.
Yeah, except when we do meet up with him, he doesn't do anything.
I beg to differ.
He shows up in Twilight Highlands were he and alextrazsa have a massive epic duel.. Other than that, like I said, he stays on the move, and lets his forces do all the figthing, if you knew anything about deathwing (from the books) you'd know that's how he chooses to fight, and its why he's one of the very few villains who has existed for over 20k+ and hadn't been killed.
in his mind "why fix what aint broken?"
he only shows up in person when A: he is taunted, B: is desperate, or C: is doing a quick "Guerrilla" attack (Hit, and then run)
Evidently like Thrall, Deathwing never ponied up the dough for epic riding because he just leisurely hovers around doing $%^& all while we casually stroll away.
you seem to forget that he was badly wounded, he just took on another aspect and won, you can't expect him to dance polka less than 5 minutes after that, he was limping much the same way as alextrazsa wasn't even able to walk.
"He doesn't wreck havoc because if he did he'd be wrecking havoc..."
I'd put it on another set of words "He doesn't show up, because if he did, he'd have to kill you, unless he was busy fighting someone else, and there are too few in this world who can take on the destroyer 1 vs 1"
the alternative is having him show up to deliver hammy monologues and then stroll back, thus greatly diminishing his menace.
the very few canon times he shows up YOU KNOW important stuff is gonna happen. Not like the lich king, who's by his 10th apereance I was just "ohh yhea, another monologue, and then just go back to icecrown"
But he doesn't because if he did, he'd kill us all but he can't because he's on the run because if he stops he'll get wasted so he keeps wrecking havoc except he doesn't because if he did he'd kill us all...
again, he doesn't show up on quests because quests are things you do SOLO, and deathwing aint afraid to kill you if you are SOLO.
Staying in a single place for long is inviting 25+ people to go smack him in the ass.
if he shows up, he'd kill you (because you are alone) but he doesn't because he is in the move, to prevent ORGANIZED forces to pinpoint his location.
You and Adams just need to face the fact that as much of an over protective nagging mother that the Lich King was, Deathwing has been a dead beat dad.
I beg to differ.
A good villain isn't someone who exels at taunting and trowing off fancy monologues, its why Dr. Evil in austin powers is a joke of a villain, because in the whole movie all he does is taunt and talk. That is exactly the one thing the lich king does in the entire WOTLK expansion.
Hell, the one time he did something other than taunting was when he killed Saurfang Jr on the Wrathgate, after that, its just monologes, everywhere, on the DK starting zone, on icecrown, just monologues, and taunts.
Deathwing sadly only showed up once (in twilight highlands) but when he did it was EPIC. He dind't showed up just to taunt and then take off, when he decided to come, he nearly killed another aspect.
Post by
Adamsm
You and Adams just need to face the fact that as much of an over protective nagging mother that the Lich King was, Deathwing has been a dead beat dad.
And I'd still take Deathwing over the joke of the Lich King any day of the week.
Post by
Nelfshane
Missed one other in Dragonblight I believe. When you go get the hammer for the Shadowmourne quest.
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