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Bullying
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Post by
ElhonnaDS
There haven't been a whole lot of new threads lately, so here's one. There's been a lot of focus in the media lately on bullying, and whether or not the schools, or the bully's parents, or both, are taking enough measures to put a stop to it.
A lot of people get bullied as children. There's a mob mentality that human being have, and even as children they single out people that they see as different or weak, and will taunt and harass them. It doesn't always include violence, and the severity can vary from case to case, but it is very prevalent.
What are your opinions on bullying? Is it something that the kids need to work out themselves, or should adults step in and protect the students? At what point does it become something where the students doing the bullying need to have some real consequences? Does it have to wait until a student kills themselves before their classmates are told not to be little $%^&*!bags, or should the school step in whenever systematic harassment is being reported and keep it from going that far?
In cases where violence is part of the bullying, and children are receiving injuries from their classmates, do you think it's a matter for the police, the schools or the parents?
http://www.wlwt.com/r/30000681/detail.html
http://www.kmbc.com/r/30011604/detail.html
Here were the two from just today, where kids caught the bullying on cell phone cameras. One girl was attacked on the bus, after telling the bully she didn't want to fight. The other was held down during school and had all of her hair cut off, and then was jumped the same day by the same girls after school who beat her up (meaning obviously that they weren't restrained in any way after they attacked her the first time.
Post by
Adamsm
If it comes down to actual physical injuries, it should be brought before the cops. Sadly though, a lot of the bullying is ignored by teachers who have just too much on their plate, seen as just fun by the parents of the bullies themselves, or a sign of something bad happening at the home of one or the other.
I had issues with bullying in elementary school....till I suddenly shot up a foot and half and people stopped trying to mess me(helped that I gave as good as I got towards the end); never had an issue with it in high school, but did have idiots who thought it was fun to make fun of the guy who thought differently then they did(first discovered Wicca when I was in high school and the local church boys didn't like that too much); after one bad fight, the next time I hurt the guys so they stopped.
Not saying that violence is the right, since, if the idiots had been willing, they could have brought me up on assault charges(even though it was 4 on one), but they didn't want to admit that the freak kicked their asses.
Post by
ElhonnaDS
In my high school, there were about 5000 students. Hence, we didn't have one or two "nerds" or "freaks". We had about 50 of each, and we (counting myself as a nerd) all kind of hung out together, so there was less of an isolated feeling in being different than in most schools.
However, I do know that every year there was an unofficial "beat the freak week." I was immune myself, being not considered a freak, but one kid I knew had his girlfriend pushed down a very steep flight of stairs by a male lacrosse player while she was walking to class, in honor of it.
What's disturbing I think, is that they all seemed to know it when that week was coming, so it had to be pretty common knowledge. And yet, there never seemed to be any official recognition of it, or attempt to curtail it. I was a kid, of course, so I may not have noticed if there was more security or something. But you'd think they'd have made an announcement to let the kids know that they knew, and would be watching.
Post by
Adamsm
Mainly because the teachers fall into the same cliche trap as the rest; I had a gym teacher who used the same insulting nickname for me as the students. Any time I tired to bring it up, I was told that I was lying and just trying to get out of gym class.....
So yeah, could see some of the teachers agreeing with the beat the freak idea, since they aren't trying to conform....of course, I've also had teachers who have waded into student brawls and threw the combatants apart heh; during elementary school, we had a Vice Principal who was all of 5'4, and some grade 8'ers who were over 6 feet...and the VP routinely grabbed the trouble makers and frog marched them to the office for their punishments. Sadly, he left for a better job, and the replacement VP was a useless sack of crap.
Post by
pezz
I don't understand why it stops being assault and starts being 'bullying' because they go to the same school and are roughly the same age, personally.
Post by
gnomerdon
I blame the school.
Schools don't punish bullies as they should.
How do you straighten up a young buck, you whip him.
Post by
909566
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
161638
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Rankkor
Bullying is a prevalent problem across the world, without exceptions, Bullying is bad, beat up your bully if you are getting bullied. It works every time.
While I agree with this stance (the one I took to stop being bullied on school) this is just part of the solution.
Adults need to step up in order to prevent the bullying. The problem lies with parents that consent and spoil their little brats to do whatever they feel like.
My own son once beated up a kid smaller than him on school, I had a LONG chat with him, and made sure he got it through his head that he must NEVER beat anyone who has done nothing to himself. I taught him to NEVER trow the first punch, that the ONLY excusable reason to fight is either to protect himself, or to protect someone close to him. I'm glad I got to him in time, and he hasn't had any other incident like that, the only other time he had a physical altercation on school was because someone was trying to bully him. I taught him to NEVER trow the first punch.
=( I was a scrawny little kid when I was in high-school, plus I loved to read (something aparently regarded as a taboo by my the youth of my generation) and even loved video-games. In other words, by "student law" it was a-okay to harass me and beat me up. Teachers and even school authorities aren't really gonna be of any help, because they just can't be unbiased on the matter. Bullies tend to do what they do in secluded areas, or places where said authorities aint watching. So when a kid shows up all beaten, its his word vs the bully's word. And this is the sad part: The school in order to avoid the hassle of having to deal with bullies, choose to ignore the victim.
Much like Adamsm, it wasn't till I stood my ground and refused to continue being a victim that the bullies stopped harassing me, but that wasn't the real solution, they just replaced one victim with another. Sure they stopped messing with me, but starting picking up against other kids.
The only ones who can prevent abuses (Both verbal and physical, words can hurt every bit as much as a punch to the face) are the parents. Both by raising their kids with strong moral values, and by reprimending them and punishing them when they refuse to learn the lesson. I didn't grounded my son nor did I punished him in any way after he beated up that kid because he promised me he'd never do it again, but I was ready to take whatever steps necesary to prevent him from doing it again if he hadn't listened to me.
Sadly, after a certain age (Mostly 13) kids become immune to the words of their parents, and whatever moral code they've self-developed aint gonna be deleted just like that, which is why its important to mold them when they are at their most tender young age.
And no, just because your kid doesn't pick up fights doesn't mean he isn't a bully. There was this girl in high-school, REALLY HOT, gorgeous and she knew it, and she was the most vicious bully I've ever seen. Why? because she engaged in emotional bullying, often hitting on other boys (the sort that were WAY below her league) in order to get their hopes up, and then mercilessly CRUSH them in cold blood. =( one of my friends in high-school came this close to killing himself due to her. (She sent him notes saying she loved him, invited him to make out on one of the deepest darkest hallways of the school, he shows up thinking paradise awaits him, before they "start kissing" she asks him to put down his pants and then TA-DAH, turns out half the school was there, laughing at him, she included, and mocking him........)
Really lowers my hope for humanity when even as children people can be such cold-blooded MONSTERS.
I think
this song
expresses my views on bullying amazingly.
Post by
MyTie
I had a very hard time with bullies when I was a kid. I was as individual THEN as a I am now. I had my own way of doing things and my own beliefs about things, and I wasn't afraid to say it, and I wasn't afraid to stand up to people. Imagine the homosexual thread, but conducted by a room full of angry children. I was reviled by everyone when I was young. Parents, teachers, kids, etc. But, I stood up for myself. And further, I DIDN'T CARE if people didn't like me, or tried to pick on me. In one ear and out the other. Without a shoulder to cry on, or a kind soul in view, I relied on myself. As I got older, I found a few people like myself: true individuals. They will be lifelong friends. They all have very strong personalities. Even after I went in the military, I didn't make a lot of friends. Not only did I not appeal to the people, but they didn't appeal to me. It took me about 6 years to find a woman that I felt complimented my personality enough to marry. My wife is a strong, charismatic, opinionated, and wise woman. She would have to be, to put up with me. We have a high level of mutual respect. She has her style, and I have mine. She doesn't like debate, so I don't debate her on things. I don't like being nagged, and she leaves me alone about trivial stuff. Neither one of us could be happier. We were truly made for each other. However, looking back, neither one of us would have been very good for one another if we hadn't have been toughened by isolation and individualism. She had a harder time with it than I did, because her skin wasn't as naturally thick. While i could take a stadium full of booing, she was a bit more tender. Over the years, when I stood up for what I felt was right, I was rewarded by circumstances. It didn't matter how hard it was for me at the time, or how much it isolated me from others. So I am very familiar with bullying, and how to react to it: Don't back down. Eventually the bullies
will
back down, at least they did for me because I was always stronger than them. That's part of the reason I'm so stubborn. In any case, if someone is a bully, they are an idiot. They deserve to sit in a room alone for a long time. If their desire was to feel kinship through making someone else feel isolated, they deserve isolation. A cold lonely empty room, with a chair in the middle of it, for a good 2 or 3 hours, for the first occurance. Tack on an hour for each time it is necessary.
The way that humans interact with each other, and encourage each other, to things that really don't matter, for nothing more than a sense of 'comradery' has been a subject of much intrigue to me. It is the reason I studied psychology in college. One very specific aspect is sporting events. People get trampled, or into fights, or dump loads of money into sporting events. Why? The feeling of 'kinship' with your team and the people who also like that team. Ok, what is it about that team? No reason, just cause it is 'their team'. Although I think bullying is wrong, and stupid, and I don't feel that way about team sports mentality, I do believe there is some psychological mechanism that is strongly related to both. If anyone has any studies on that specifically, I'd love to hear them.
Post by
Rankkor
Here's the lyrics of that song (its an awesome song)
No one sits with him, he doesn't fit in,
But we feel like we do when we make fun of him,
'Cause you want to belong, do you go along?
'Cause his pain is the price paid for you to belong
Its not like you hate him or want him to die,
But maybe he goes home and thinks suicide,
Or he comes back to school with a gun at his side,
Any kindness from you might have saved his life...
TAG: Heroes are made when you make a choice...
CHORUS:
You could be a hero,
Heroes do whats right,
You could be a hero,
You might save a life,
You could be a hero, you could join the fight,
For whats right, for whats right, for whats right...
No one talks to her, she feels so alone,
Shes in too much pain to survive on her own,
The hurt she cant handle overflows to a knife,
She writes on her arm, wants to give up her life,
Each day she goes on is a day that she is brave,
Fighting the lie that giving up is the way,
Each moment of courage her own life she saves,
When she throws the pills out, a hero is made...
TAG/CHORUS
No one talks to him about how he lives,
He thinks that the choices he makes are just his,
Doesnt know hes a leader with the way he behaves,
And others will follow the choices hes made,
He lives on the edge, he's old enough to decide,
His brother who wants to be him is just nine,
He can do what he wants because its his right,
The choices he makes change a nine-year-old's life...
TAG/CHORUS
Little Mikey-Dee was the one in class
Who everyday got brutally harassed
This went on for years
Till he decided that never again would he shed another tear
So he walked through the door
And grabbed the .44 out of his father's dresser drawer
He said 'I can't take life no more'
And like that a life can be lost
But this ain't even about that
All of us just sat back and watched it happen
Thinking its not our responsibility
To solve a problem that isn't even about me
This is our problem.
This is just one of the daily scenarios
In which we choose to close our eyes
Instead of doing the right thing
If we make a choice and be the voice
For those who won't speak up for themselves
How many lives would be saved, changed, rearranged?
Now it's our time to pick a side.
So don't keep walking by not wanting to intervene,
Cause you just want to exist and never be seen.
So lets wake up, change the world
Our time is now.
You could be a hero - (Our time is now) heroes do what’s right
You could be a hero - (Our time is now) you might save a life
You could be a hero - (Our time is now) you could join the fight
For what’s right, for what’s ri-ight...
Post by
Squishalot
I'd like to extend the original topic to include cyberbullying as well, if that's ok with Elhonna? Bullying doesn't just come in physical, 'in-person' styles. It also has different legal / response connotations.(##RESPBREAK##)8##DELIM##Squishalot##DELIM##
Post by
ElhonnaDS
Of course :)
That's part of the reason that there's such a focus on bullying in the media now, I think. When kids were getting beat up behind swing sets, sent anonymous hate notes in their lockers, and having horrible things said to them just out of ear shot of adults, many adults didn't think it was all that big a deal.
Now that camera phones are showing the viciousness of the altercations, and things like Facebook and e-mails memorialize the nastiness of what's being said and can pinpoint without a doubt who said it, people are starting to realize that maybe kids aren't overreacting to what's being said and done to them.
Post by
Patty
Bullying is bad, beat up your bully if you are getting bullied. It works every time.
And if you're less than capable of physically overpowering the bully...? Using violence is probably much more likely to backfire than it is to succeed.
Post by
161638
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Squishalot
I find it interesting that people are focusing on physical bullying and not the ostracisation, taunting and betrayal that forms emotional bullying, especially when there are no real laws that can be tied back to the event (e.g. assault).
Post by
Azazel
Bullying is bad, beat up your bully if you are getting bullied. It works every time.
And if you're less than capable of physically overpowering the bully...? Using violence is probably much more likely to backfire than it is to succeed.
My bully was a head taller than me and way stronger. But I got so pissed off after all that time that I just kicked his ass. It's all about willpower.
Post by
Patty
Bullying is bad, beat up your bully if you are getting bullied. It works every time.
And if you're less than capable of physically overpowering the bully...? Using violence is probably much more likely to backfire than it is to succeed.
My bully was a head taller than me and way stronger. But I got so pissed off after all that time that I just kicked his ass. It's all about willpower.
....That seems more than a little optimistic. I managed to rip the Empire State Building from its foundations. It's all about willpower.
Post by
Azazel
Bullying is bad, beat up your bully if you are getting bullied. It works every time.
And if you're less than capable of physically overpowering the bully...? Using violence is probably much more likely to backfire than it is to succeed.
My bully was a head taller than me and way stronger. But I got so pissed off after all that time that I just kicked his ass. It's all about willpower.
....That seems more than a little optimistic. I managed to rip the Empire State Building from its foundations. It's all about willpower.
Well, a lot of bullies aren't too strong or brave and pick on people smaller than themselves to feel better. Just stand up for yourself. Even if it means a hit n' run nutshot.
Post by
Patty
Bullying is bad, beat up your bully if you are getting bullied. It works every time.
And if you're less than capable of physically overpowering the bully...? Using violence is probably much more likely to backfire than it is to succeed.
My bully was a head taller than me and way stronger. But I got so pissed off after all that time that I just kicked his ass. It's all about willpower.
....That seems more than a little optimistic. I managed to rip the Empire State Building from its foundations. It's all about willpower.
Well, a lot of bullies aren't too strong or brave and pick on people smaller than themselves to feel better. Just stand up for yourself. Even if it means a hit n' run nutshot.
I don't think you're understanding the point we're making.
1) A hell of a lot of the impact of bullying is psychological. Even if people theoretically are not invulnerable, you may think they are. You're too afraid to do anything, as much as it may be needed.
2) You're at a major disadvantage in many cases, most the time bullies don't work alone. In many cases victims are, or feel like they are.
3) Violence in itself achieves, basically, nothing.
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