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Blood Death Knights Need a Serious Nerf In PVP
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Post by
870547
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Monday
Read the tip.
Um, it doesn't transfer the healing to you...
Post by
Interest
Read the tip.
Um, it doesn't transfer the healing to you...
Shhhh. Don't tell him. Maybe I can gank him in a BG someday.
Post by
Adamsm
Well...I'm an idiot...still killed the Blood DK though.
Post by
Orranis
Well...I'm an idiot...still killed the Blood DK though.
You Gladiator you. I'm sure he was rank one too.
I just don't understand how you can say people should learn how their class operates and use all their abilities to their maximum potential in order to kill someone spamming Death Strike when you believe something as basically wrong as the fact that Necrotic Strike would heal you.
Post by
Astygia
That completely negates the fact that people need to learn to use their own tools, because one guy misunderstood a tooltip? Your argument that weak that this is the best you can do?
Orranis: Zero bloods in top-rated arena teams in every bracket. This is evidence that the class isn't broken, otherwise there'd be tons, especially in 2's. Discuss? Or just keep crying?
Even with vengeance nerf, people that are too ignorant to kite or use utilities are still getting wasted by Bloods. It just takes an extra DS or 2.
Post by
Adamsm
I just don't understand how you can say people should learn how their class operates and use all their abilities to their maximum potential in order to kill someone spamming Death Strike when you believe something as basically wrong as the fact that Necrotic Strike would heal you.
As I said, I admitted my mistake there; but using Necrotic Strike does negate some of the heals the Death Strikes do to the spammer, same as they do other classes that have heals. And yes, more people do need to learn to kite a Blood DK, since trying to straight up burst them down is never the best move.
But here's a question for you Face: Do you play Blood in pvp, or does your Death Knight have a better optimized spec?
Edit: In all honesty, I don't really notice if I'm up against a Blood DK anyways; only this time because they were doing nothing but trying to spam Death Strike. I've always had more problems with Frost Death Knights myself.
Post by
Rankkor
xD I arrived too late to the party, but adamsm don't take tooltips so literally bro' xD. Necrotic strikes negates the heal, but doesn't transfers it to you, THAT would be quite OP.
You do have a point though that people who correctly know how to play will kill blood DKs without much problem. I only have difficulties as melee when I'm playing Frost, and that's mostly since I can only string up 4 necrotic strikes per round, and because Runic Empowerment sucks compared to runic corruption.
As unholy I make them red puddles on the ground.
when me and my assassination rogue friend play together in 2 vs 2, they don't stand a chance in hell.
Haven't had a chance to try them out in this new patch since for some weird reason I have to download 6 Gb when the rest of the world had to download 50 megabytes, but whatever.
Tomorrow I'm back in the game, and will joyfully feed off the tears of the baddies who will cry "They nerfed them and they are still OP NERF MOAR BLIZZ NERF THEM MOAR!"
Get in to TB today, get in some randoms and the same crap is being said. Blood dks are op.
Still? I haven't done any real pvp since the patch hit.
Something tells me you've never done any real pvp.
pure win :P
Zero bloods in top-rated arena teams in every bracket. This is evidence that the class isn't broken, otherwise there'd be tons, especially in 2's. Discuss? Or just keep crying?
Even with vengeance nerf, people that are too ignorant to kite or use utilities are still getting wasted by Bloods. It just takes an extra DS or 2.
true to the bone. People whined about OP dks when Death's Embrace refunded RP when used to heal yourself with lichborn. That got nerfed, and they still lost to DKs. They cried when Dark Succor healed 30% health all the time, that got nerfed and they still lost to DKs. They cried more when Vengeance scaled faster, that got nerfed and get this:
THEY STILL LOSE TO BLOOD DKS!
Maybe its time to open up the eyes, and admit that if you lose to a blood Dk, its not the class. its you.
Specially since during ALL OF CATA (Back when Death's embrace fully refunded RP, back when Dark Succor granted truly ludicrous healing, back when Vengeance scaled madly fast) no blood DK was present on high-rated Arenas OF ANY BRACKET.
Why is that? because good people know how to kill a blood DK, without breaking a sweat.
Post by
Adamsm
Heh, I think I got confused from using Necrotic Strike in other situations where I was receiving healing; like I said, I'm an idiot who needs to read better.
Post by
Orranis
I just don't understand how you can say people should learn how their class operates and use all their abilities to their maximum potential in order to kill someone spamming Death Strike when you believe something as basically wrong as the fact that Necrotic Strike would heal you.
As I said, I admitted my mistake there; but using Necrotic Strike does negate some of the heals the Death Strikes do to the spammer, same as they do other classes that have heals. And yes, more people do need to learn to kite a Blood DK, since trying to straight up burst them down is never the best move.
But here's a question for you Face: Do you play Blood in pvp, or does your Death Knight have a better optimized spec?
I'm saying this as someone who used to try
2v1
ing arenas as Blood and then quit in 4.3 because it became
too easy
.
Edit: In all honesty, I don't really notice if I'm up against a Blood DK anyways; only this time because they were doing nothing but trying to spam Death Strike. I've always had more problems with Frost Death Knights myself.
Doesn't make you sound very knowledgeable about Blood. Throughout this entire thread I've seen you call everyone who believes Vengeance is ridiculous 'bad' and 'lazy,' while you yourself have not only failed to demonstrate a knowledge of but in fact demonstrated a complete lack of knowledge of Blood Death Knights, other classes such as Warrior, and even your own class.
That completely negates the fact that people need to learn to use their own tools, because one guy misunderstood a tooltip? Your argument that weak that this is the best you can do?
Orranis: Zero bloods in top-rated arena teams in every bracket. This is evidence that the class isn't broken, otherwise there'd be tons, especially in 2's. Discuss? Or just keep crying?
Even with vengeance nerf, people that are too ignorant to kite or use utilities are still getting wasted by Bloods. It just takes an extra DS or 2.
Blood Death Knights, and to a lesser extent other tanks, are not seriously overpowered in significant PvP content. What does bother me, however, is the content that causes them to be overpowered, is due to a completely unnecessary mechanic. Vengeance is brokenly powerful in PvE as well, and with the 500% threat buff, entirely unnecessary. In my opinion bring the 33% down to 10% or something, but tanks do insane damage in PvE as well. It's just not necessary.
I don't see why people really care if Blood DK's damage is nerfed. It's too high without enrage dispels in PvP, and it's overall too high in PvE. Anyone defending Blood is arguing that it's not viable in arena anyways, so they shouldn't mind.
Okay, but, for everyone who argues Blood is fine, why should we not nerf vengeance anyways? It causes tank damage to be too high damage in PvE and would help make certain comps not get completely destroyed by Blood DKs, while if you're already claiming it's unviable in 'real PvP' would make no difference there. So where's the down side?
Blood will be just as strong as it was in 4.2, which I am absolutely fine with. It gives people a lot of time to breathe to employ strategies to kill the DK rather than just get run up to smacked in the face with a train and then told they should have kited it better.
So if it was already irrelevant to competitive PvP, and it was causing serious problems in two's, and there was an incredibly easy fix for the problems that did exist, what reason was there not to fix it? I agree that it's generally better to balance around higher levels of play, but if you can make an easy fix to low level play that would not effect high level play what-so-ever, why wouldn't you?
Please ask new questions.
Post by
Adamsm
Doesn't make you sound very knowledgeable about Blood. Throughout this entire thread I've seen you call everyone who believes Vengeance is ridiculous 'bad' and 'lazy,' while you yourself have not only failed to demonstrate a knowledge of but in fact demonstrated a complete lack of knowledge of Blood Death Knights, other classes such as Warrior, and even your own class.I made one mistake about a tool tip, how is that not knowing my class? I admitted to not paying much attention to the DK I'm fighting; if I don't see bone shield up and I'm not looking to see which presence they are in, I'm not the best at recognizing what spec I'm up against without better clues. As for the Warriors....where did that comment come from; all I've mentioned in regards to them is about using hamstring to slow a DK down, stance dance to disarm them, or do the charge stun method.
Also, I'm sorry, but I agree with the others in regards to the original thing with vengeance/death strike spamming DK's; there are some fairly easy ways to deal with them.
Edit: Also, sorry for missing that comment where you said you did pvp as Blood for a time.
Post by
Orranis
Doesn't make you sound very knowledgeable about Blood. Throughout this entire thread I've seen you call everyone who believes Vengeance is ridiculous 'bad' and 'lazy,' while you yourself have not only failed to demonstrate a knowledge of but in fact demonstrated a complete lack of knowledge of Blood Death Knights, other classes such as Warrior, and even your own class.I made one mistake about a tool tip, how is that not knowing my class? I admitted to not paying much attention to the DK I'm fighting; if I don't see bone shield up and I'm not looking to see which presence they are in, I'm not the best at recognizing what spec I'm up against without better clues. As for the Warriors....where did that comment come from; all I've mentioned in regards to them is about using hamstring to slow a DK down, stance dance to disarm them, or do the charge stun method.
You said no specific fallacy about Warriors, except that you somehow implied that they are able to 'kite' Blood DKs and kill them (even Hamstring requires melee range and thus their damage negated a good 50k Death Strike to the face), when it's effectively impossible. You made many other claims about other classes. It's not impossible with two players, only that it's infinitely more difficult to score a kill on the Blood DK than the Blood DK to score a kill on you.
And I'm sorry but not knowing the functioning of your classes main nuke is pretty harsh on the 'knowledge of class' scale. It's not just the misreading of the tooltip, but also the fact that you can continue with this belief while using said ability in PvP and observing its effects.
Also, I'm sorry, but I agree with the others in regards to the original thing with vengeance/death strike spamming DK's; there are some fairly easy ways to deal with them.
Edit: Also, sorry for missing that comment where you said you did pvp as Blood for a time.
I've still yet to see an argument on why Vengeance should stay, not why it didn't NEED to go.
Post by
Orranis
Doesn't make you sound very knowledgeable about Blood. Throughout this entire thread I've seen you call everyone who believes Vengeance is ridiculous 'bad' and 'lazy,' while you yourself have not only failed to demonstrate a knowledge of but in fact demonstrated a complete lack of knowledge of Blood Death Knights, other classes such as Warrior, and even your own class.I made one mistake about a tool tip, how is that not knowing my class? I admitted to not paying much attention to the DK I'm fighting; if I don't see bone shield up and I'm not looking to see which presence they are in, I'm not the best at recognizing what spec I'm up against without better clues. As for the Warriors....where did that comment come from; all I've mentioned in regards to them is about using hamstring to slow a DK down, stance dance to disarm them, or do the charge stun method.
You said no specific fallacy about Warriors, except that you somehow implied that they are able to 'kite' Blood DKs and kill them (even Hamstring requires melee range and thus their damage negated a good 50k Death Strike to the face), when it's effectively impossible. You made many other claims about other classes. It's not impossible with two players, only that it's infinitely more difficult to score a kill on the Blood DK than the Blood DK to score a kill on you.
And I'm sorry but not knowing the functioning of your classes main nuke is pretty harsh on the 'knowledge of class' scale. It's not just the misreading of the tooltip, but also the fact that you can continue with this belief while using said ability in PvP and observing its effects.
Also, I'm sorry, but I agree with the others in regards to the original thing with vengeance/death strike spamming DK's; there are some fairly easy ways to deal with them.
Edit: Also, sorry for missing that comment where you said you did pvp as Blood for a time.
I've still yet to see an argument on why Vengeance should stay, not why it didn't NEED to go.
Post by
250582
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Orranis
I've still yet to see an argument on why Vengeance should stay, not why it didn't NEED to go.
Here you go =)
1. I guess it
could
be argued that vengeance could have previously been considered a learning tool for players new to pvp. (Freetip: Don't hit the tank) Though that's a fairly thin argument anyway.
Where they learn to... What? Even so, why do they deserve the overpowered training wheels no one else does?
2.
Savage Defender.
Ferals real arena survivability already doesn't rely on Savage Defense, it's on Enraged Regeneration and Barkskin. There will be less people turtling in Bear Form now especially in 2's, which is a good thing.
Post by
870547
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
skumbananer
Blood is stupid op vs melee.
Post by
Ahrendel
LOL LOL LOL
You people still complaining about tanks being OP? Jesus, you just QQ'ed your way into nerfing all four tanks.
Learn to play the game for a change and use the tools are your disposal.
Or have you become too accustomed to the soup from the golden bowl on Blizzard's silver platter?
Post by
250582
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
588688
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
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