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The Darker Side of WoW
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Post by
Onijitsu
Let's face it. Many -- not all -- people are selfish, mean-spirited individuals. Some of us can display these negative qualities to some degree or another from time to time. Some display them a great deal of the time... I'm sure many of you can think of a few individuals on your own, particular realm who fit the bill. The fact that people can anonymously hide behind the digital persona of our in-game avatars -- a psychology similar to road-rage maniacs on the freeway, feeling separated from everyone else while isolated in their own cars -- sometimes encourages (or allows) behavior which we might not otherwise allow in ourselves.
Over the past few years I've seen a lot of different things. Grudges. Online relationships gone bad. Stalkings. Defamation. Racial and Sexual slurs. Loot disputes. Chain-ganking. A MMO is about people playing with (or against) people. A LOT of people. There is competition, even if you're not playing in the PvP side of the game. Competition for numbers (as in DPSing or even Healing), competition for Realm-Firsts. And also competition for loot. WoW is particularly loot-centric as a game, like its predecessor RPG, Diablo. People gripe when this individual gets an item which they could have used. There are a variety of third-party loot systems, used by guilds, which are intended to be "fair" in their own way. Simple RNG rolls, PGP-type points systems, and Loot Councils are all methods used.
So when someone misbehaves, mistreats someone or, worse, when someone shows outright malice and avarice what are we supposed to do about it? Well, obviously, we can identify and avoid those individuals. We can refuse to do business with them in some ways. We can even warn-off our friends from interacting with those persons. And, supposedly, we have the option to report bad behavior to a GM. After all... Blizzard established a Terms of Service contract which illustrates certain types of behavior as being worthy of punishment. We all have to agree to it, in order to play. And, Blizzard creates the environment -- and the rules -- under which we interact with one another. My question is:
does Blizzard enforce the rules in any meaningful, comprehensive way?
After playing the game for some years, I have come to believe that they don't.
The next question I want to pose is this: is the answer, then, some form of digital, vigilante justice?
The word "
vigilante
" can conjure all sorts of images. But its basic meaning is that citizens of a place (or, in this case, a WoW realm) take matters into their own hands, when they feel that the Authorities are not acting in an authoritative and decisive manner. The reason the word has a negative connotation is that, historically, some people have taken such things too far. But we shouldn't assume people will naturally become evil, in attempting to fight what they perceive as evil. And, we shouldn't assume they won't, either. There are innumerable books and movies about this very topic. Jodi Foster's "The Brave One" was one of them, which portrays the protagonist perhaps getting a bit out of control. The entire "Dark Knight" series of movies -- and perhaps, ANY superhero movie -- portrays a form of vigilante justice which we cheer on. We pay good money to see it. We buy merchandise from it. These movies strike a chord in our psyches. We feel, at some level, that the world is some very basic way, unfair. Broken. In need of fixing. And the sooner, the better. The meek may be destined to inherit the Earth, according to some religious beliefs, but for the mean-time, the meek are getting the living crap kicked out of them, metaphorically and literally, by monsters who are beholden to no power but themselves, or who operate in large part outside of any laws which are supposed to limit their behavior. MMOs are a microcosm of Human society, with Human foibles, prejudices, and motives, whether those motives are good or bad. And, like I said before, while gamers are more limited in some ways -- we will not see any genocidal pogroms to eliminate all Gnomes, for instance -- they are also less limited by some inner sense of propriety, because the Internet grants them a form of immunity.
Let me say that another way: anonymity breeds a sense that one can act without consequence. And perhaps that's at the heart of this discussion: what are the consequences for behavior that most (if not all) of us can agree is bad, selfish, or even plainly abusive?
It is clear Blizzard policy that they will not divulge any disciplinary action taken against an individual. This is probably prudent. But for "victims" in the game, when they see individuals continue in their behavior, just as maliciously and arrogantly as always, it becomes apparent that Blizzard is either not disciplining them, or it is not disciplining them
enough
.
I consider myself to be a fairly decent guy. I do services for individuals -- often, total strangers, advertising a need for some profession or another -- because I just like being a nice guy. But I'm also sick and tired of being a "victim", and feeling like there is little or no recourse for situations which happen.
--
In one recent situation (among many, preceding it), there was a loot dispute. The loot rules were unambiguously stated in raid-chat before the raid began. After the Raid-Leader ninja-looted an item to someone else, I did the only thing I could think of: I filed a complaint with a GM. I even provided screenshots, both of the stated loot-rules, and of the rolls which happened for the item. I have now conversed, either in-game, or via submittals and responses from GMs, at least nine times regarding the issue. The answer? The GMs aren't going to do anything. In fact, according to
Blizzard's own "ninja-looting" policy
, even if they actually DO something, like take the item away from the individuals profiting by scamming others, Blizzard is not -- repeat, NOT -- likely to give the item to the person who should have gotten it. Why is that? Doesn't Blizzard's official position of not righting such wrongs essentially make them complicit with this behavior? After all, if there are no consequences, then it might as well be like the mass-looting and chaos of Los Angeles during the Rodney King riots. Everyone get out there and get yours, while the gettin's good!
And ultimately, if I (or others) were to choose to become some sort of "digital vigilante", to at the very least exclude those individuals from raids and guilds. What of it? If some were to take it to such an extreme that they even began to mimic the bad behavior of those who had victimized themselves, what of it? Or, what if some of these "victims" were so full of anger that they embarked upon a vitriolic campaign to make the game as miserable as possible for those others. What of it? What's Blizzard going to do about it? By all indications, nothing.
Post by
161859
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Rystrave
Last time someone tried to be a vigilante, he ended up running. He tried to do what the police couldn't, control the scum. And because of that he also became dispised. But that wasn't real life, and neither is this.
You can do everything you can to clear the flower bed of weeds, but they'll always come back no matter what you do.
The good thing about WoW is that you can move on and realize that the loot will drop again.
Blizzard does take personal attacks against someone very seriously, and approaches it accordingly.
Ganking happens if you enter enemy territory, or are on a PVP realm. If you don't like getting ganked while questing, move over to a PVE realm.
People hide behind their characters, and while some are themselves in game as they are out of game, most are someone completely different. Think of the Sims. Be who you want to be.
It's just a game.
Post by
warcanon
I would recommend posting this thread on the official forums and vent your thoughts there, we sure like to discuss about most things revolving around the game but it MIGHT be better to have this kind of thing on the official site if u like the wow-crew to pick it faster, You can also send an e-mail to WoWConcernsEU@Blizzard.com if you want to give them feedback about why you're upset/angry/disappointed/etc.
I can feel for you about what happened. You can only hope the Master looter is fair about his own rules that she/he sets. The hardest about reporting things like what you did is that it might take time before actions are taken, and you might not even know/notice the person(s) got punished so you can't relate to reporting bad actions = action taken.
it's just a game. yes and no. I know it's just a software on the computer, and the software is only trying to simulate all the actions it has allowed the user to take in the best way it was programmed to do, so it's a game. For some players it's a way to spend time with friends when the weather, distance and/or location prohibits the means to meet each other in person, so it becomes more then a game for them.
For me it's a game, but I get annoyed on people who don't care about others time and just fool around. I avoid areas where I can bump into that kind of players, but not possible always. (Crap it went far away from topic =S )
Nothing personal, just happened to see it in this thread and got to vent about it.
Post by
Adamsm
It is just a game, and if you are letting some idiot ruin your fun for you well.....yeah.
Person spamming comments at you: Report spam and shut up their account till you log off.
Person camping you: Log out, go do something else for a while.
Loot drama not in guild: Shrug, know that the loot will drop again, and run it again.
Post by
895302
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
gnomerdon
being a victim means u are a victim. there are no rewards
blizzard can't do anything to fix those minor issues.
by being a nice guy is like a bird telling all the birds that there are worms over here. you wait ur turn and when it is finally ur turn, you see nothing.
survival means being selfish. happy means being ignorant. if you are not any of that, then life gets hard.
edit: I've had countless RL friends and in-game friends, and out of those 30 people, there was only 1 person who offered a helping hand with nothing in return. in my sample pool, finding people who do understand and considers everyone is hard to find.
Post by
747939
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
gnomerdon
why not blame the victim himself for giving the guild leader (master looter) the halo effect?
if ur in a good guild and ur guild leader is trustworthy, ninja looting will never happen.
if ur in a friend biased guild and u are an outsider, it will happen rarely
if u are pugging with another guild, it will tend to happen more
if you are pugging with PUGS from trade chat, it w/ill happen almost half the time or more.
things get a little gray. i wonder how many of us reads the term and agreement before actually playing the game.
and if you feel like you are being robbed monthly, just simply unsubscribe. the more you play, the more you are fueling their negligence. why not just quit now. ur voice is only be heard when you hurt the company, as in unsubscribing.
Post by
Adamsm
Another example of the use of language that is distorted, and used inappropriatelyt/out of context is the widespread use of the word/term "rape" in the game "let's rape Horde/Ally" etc.
A serious grown up Business would not allow such a derogatory term to be used in a game played by young girls and women. Do you think Blizzard would tolerate theft or derogatory language in their Head Office?
No of course not.
Have you played any games lately? Rape has existed in the video game universe for years. And if you truly dislike seeing people saying that in chat, report them with report spam(which shuts up their entire account till you log off and in fact erases what they said from the chat log) or put them on ignore.
Post by
Rystrave
Last time I checked, there was no way God could censor the world on what they say and do. And considering Blizzard is the god of the World of Warcraft, you cannot expect more out of them than God himself can do.
Post by
Onijitsu
Last time I checked, there was no way God could censor the world on what they say and do. And considering Blizzard is the god of the World of Warcraft, you cannot expect more out of them than God himself can do.
That is a ridiculous argument. God doesn't provide you with an agreement before allowing you to exist on this world. God doesn't have hard-set policies which indicate any action will be taken anytime before the Afterlife. Blizzard, on the other hand, is a business. They take your money, and they claim to uphold a certain, minimum standard of behavior. But the plain fact is, they are ambiguous, at best, about keeping the game a somewhat pleasant, abuse-free environment. In the one example I provided -- among many situations, and many of those didn't involve loot, but some sort of abusive behavior towards an individual -- Blizzard was provided with hard evidence of what the loot rules were, and what happened. Not to mention that they can check the logs themselves, if they are willing to take the trouble to do so. Even in such a situation, where all of the material is provided for them, they will not provide any form of justice to their paying customers. Hence, my argument for "vigilante justice".
I would recommend posting this thread on the official forums and vent your thoughts there
Such posts in the Blizzard official fora are locked and/or ignored. I've seen it several times before. The standard Admin/GM response is, "This isn't a complaints forum." There IS NO complaints forum. They supposedly may have had one at some point, but decided to get rid of it. Ergo: they don't want any sort of feedback which paints their employees as anything other than positive.
The original post was about Blizzard's failure to do (or care) anything significant about issues which negatively affect their paying customers. Therefore, the answer seems to be NOT to complain to Blizzard -- they have already gotten innumerable complaints, and done little to fix the situations involved -- but to change one's own paradigm and begin handling the matter oneself, as best one sees fit.
Post by
161859
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Onijitsu
Yes, you can complain. However, that does not mean they have to do something about it. When a company has as large of a customer base as Blizzard does, you pool complaints and address them as priorities. That is how every company on the planet (that has a large customer base) responds to customer issues. It's a balance between resources and severity of the complaint. Unfortunately, there are many complaints that will not get addressed.
Unless you can see their complaint pareto, you have no idea if your specific complaint even shows up on their radar.
I don't find myself disagreeing with you at all.... you raise a really good point. But, to paraphrase, if you really want some action taken, you have to make it a big enough issue that it pops up on their radar, right?
Honestly, I'd love to see a sort of "movement" within the game, where people begin acting on their own volition to solve issues within the game. And if Blizzard were to object, they would have to admit their perpetual negligence of these issues.
Post by
819424
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Adamsm
Honestly, I'd love to see a sort of "movement" within the game, where people begin acting on their own volition to solve issues within the game. And if Blizzard were to object, they would have to admit their perpetual negligence of these issues.
Oh for the love of the Naaru, no occupy Azeroth.....
Post by
Monday
#OccupySW
Post by
gnomerdon
#OccupySW
^
Post by
lonewarrior
The behavior pattern you see is caused by enabling.
Players don't feel the presence of Blizz...so they don't fear their own actions.
Sort of like a road speed trap. The cops aren't always there but you never know when they will be present so drivers familiar with the road tend to obey the speed limit all the time.
Watched an animal documentary that showed teenage bull elephants ganging up on rhinos and killing them. The park rangers couldn't figure it out until they realized the poachers had killed off all the dominant males. They shipped in some bad ass old time bull elephant and the problem immediately stopped. They didn't need to see the bull in the area to check their behavior they just need to feel his presence.
WoW has become sort of bunch of roaming bullies that could use a bull elephant dropped on it.
If Blizz made it's presence known in real time to offenders of their policies...it wouldn't take long for the overall community to change their behavior.
They wouldn't need to be on all the time...just make players feel like they are.
PS. Guilds use to be the front line against numbnuts. They were easily ostracized and usually they would all join up into one guild which made it easy to avoid them. No longer I'm afraid.
Post by
nofoodforyou
I have two views on this, ninja looting to me is not something that warrants a ticket, its a peice of gear, something else will come along.The online bullying on the other hand, i feel, GMs should take more seriously than they do. Atleast once a day, if not more, i get called some profanity or am a witness to it. Yes, it's just a game and we all chose to play it. The only thing I think of is all of the children that also play. Granted their parents should be monitoring them while they play, but lets face it with what goes on in game (on my server atleast) I'm not too sure how much supervision is going on. I have opened tickets about abuse too many times to count, but it seems to me that as time goes on it just gets worse.The Gms dont even take game content tickets seriously. I had to write over 5 tickets about a quest i couldnt find. First one told me to check here, second told me they had no knowledge about the quest at all, third one told me to check here (again). If they dont even help with quest issues then what are they getting paid for, other than making videos of having npcs bash in the lich king and posting it on youtube?
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