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Nastiness and Hate in the Wake of a Tragedy
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Post by
ElhonnaDS
You do have the right to be a jerk. You don't have the right to keep a job as a teacher when you're being emotionally abusive to students, teach them to be destructive and to not respect their classmates, and to be intentionally cruel to people who are suffering.
I'm fairly sure you just described Physical Education.
LOL
I <3 U, ur so funny
Post by
Skithus
You do have the right to be a jerk. You don't have the right to keep a job as a teacher when you're being emotionally abusive to students, teach them to be destructive and to not respect their classmates, and to be intentionally cruel to people who are suffering.
I'm fairly sure you just described Physical Education.
LOL
I <3 U, ur so funny
Omg I <3 you too, we should probably have sex
Post by
ElhonnaDS
You do have the right to be a jerk. You don't have the right to keep a job as a teacher when you're being emotionally abusive to students, teach them to be destructive and to not respect their classmates, and to be intentionally cruel to people who are suffering.
I'm fairly sure you just described Physical Education.
LOL
I <3 U, ur so funny
Omg I <3 you too, we should probably have sex
Probably
Post by
91278
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
ElhonnaDS
See? It's not just me.
Yeah, but ur safely in England. Skithus stalks me IRL.
Post by
91278
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
168916
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
ElhonnaDS
So, for all of the people who see this as just a freedom of speech issue- should there be no requirements about the behavior of teachers, then? Should a school district not be able to fire teachers who, say, refer to their students by racist slurs, posted on a student's facebook that they think that cocaine is a far superior high to marijuana, or posted a comment that an 18-year-old student looked really hot today and how he'd love to bend her over his desk for some extra credit? Is all of that covered under freedom of speech, then, so that the school can't use the excuse that the teacher is setting a bad example as a reason to fire them?
Post by
Sweetscot
Once again people are confusing legal freedom of speech with "I can say anything I want anywhere and nothing bad will ever happen because of it". Please THINK about what freedom of speech actually is first before you jump to defend it (hint: what most of you are defending isn't actually freedom of speech at all)
Also, the thing with teachers is that due to the nature of their jobs they generally have to sign documents agreeing to a certain level of moral conduct, which is where this whole thing can take a different turn anyway. By signing one of these you agree that you will be fired if you do something unbefitting an educator. So not only did he do something stupid he knew good and well that it would get him fired (if he'd signed such an agreement, but considering how common they are I would be more surprised if he hadn't than I would be if he had)
To answer Elhonna's question, I do definitely think teachers should be under scrutiny. While that leads to some really crappy situations for some teachers I think it's necessary to keep children safe. And I do consider being exposed to someone like in the OP is a serious danger to children, I don't just mean physically safe.
Post by
gamerunknown
Sheesh, count me among the people surprised at the reactions here. Firing people for facebook comments? This shouldn't need saying, but there are only two positions on freedom of speech - either you're in favor of it even when it's really nasty and hateful, or you're not in favor of it at all. And personally, any time I find my views on the opposite side of freedom of speech, I take that as a cue to re-examine my views.
That's a false dichotomy. Elhonna, your examples were hilarious, thank you.
Post by
688001
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Post by
168916
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
MyTie
There seems to be a confusion of what "freedom of speech" is about. Freedom of Speech is there to protect people from the outlawing of talking about topics the government may not want discussed. This could be anything, but especially political or religious topics. What that all boils down to, is people are protected from
criminal prosecution
stemming from their words alone. But, at the same time, someone doesn't have to be found guilty of a crime in order to be fired. Fire them if they say something inappropriate, or even speak about something unprofessional at work. That is the option of the person or people who own or are entrusted to run the company. At this point, it would be the school board's responsibility to make that decision, which they should ultimately base on the customer's input, namely, parents. This really has nothing to do with freedom of speech. Nobody is going to arrest this guy. Freedom of speech doesn't even need to be mentioned in this discussion, because it has nothing to do with the topic.
Post by
ElhonnaDS
^^- What he said.
Post by
91278
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
gamerunknown
We talk about principles like "the freedom of speech" to distinguish that default position from the more extreme position of supporting said freedom in all cases, even when it's abhorrent. Thus the question of whether one supports such a principle is by definition the question of whether one supports it when it's unpleasant.
I'm saying there's a contiguous line, something you recognise yourself with libel laws. For example, saying one wants to kill the president when one owns a gun is a federal crime. Saying you wouldn't cry if the president died isn't. Singing along to a Cypress Hill song isn't illegal, announcing intent to supply when one is in possession of drugs will probably bump the sentence up.
I agree with MyTie that there are things that could be unprofessional even if not illegal. For example, I think teachers aren't allowed to influence a student's political decisions or they risk getting fired, but the teacher could have "Vote Obama" or "Vote Ron Paul" posters plastered all over their house.
Post by
168916
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
ElhonnaDS
Freedom of Speech is there to protect people from ...
criminal prosecution
stemming from their words alone.
Freedom of speech is a principle, not a legal construct - it is justly applied to lawmaking but it's no less worthy a thing to apply to a set of ethics or one's point of view, such as one's opinion (or the local school board's opinion) of whether this guy ought to be fired.
Did you read my earlier post? I'd like to know if you believe that a teacher can engage in saying any of those other things, in addition to mocking the death of a child, because of free speech? Do you believe that any person, who acts in any way they wish that isn't illegal, is perfectly acceptable to teach children? If he was a member of the executive board of a local car company, I'd be more in agreement with you. He might expect that, if his opinions have nothing to do with his job, then he should be entitled to them. The board, if they feel that the publicity would hurt stock holdings or create problems with employees, has the right to fire him, but I'd be less up in arms.
It's specifically because he is a teacher that this is coming up. His job is to teach children. Not just the educational basics, but also things like discipline, respecting each other, not to do drugs, etc. One of the things that children need to learn is that bullying is NOT ok. for him to tell them it is, and that it's the kid's fault for being gay that he was bullied, is him failing in his job as an educator.
Post by
168916
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Post by
168916
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
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