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10.2.5
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Alliance and Horde antagonism
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Post by
588688
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Rankkor
Sold, Rank, if I may:
Both the alliance and horde are made up of 'people'
People are dark, cruel, evil, and flawed.
Thus, but the alliance and horde are dark, cruel, evil, and flawed.
*walks away*
hey I'm not the one denying it, I openly admit that the horde and alliance are made of people and as such, they are ALL just as capable of being nice as they are of being mean, neither side has done more than the other to provoke the war, the blame is equal on both sides.
just about everyone else agrees on this, but there's allways someone who will point at their faction and say that A: they have done nothing wrong at all, or B: that while they have done some bad things, the others have done worst (which is the same as A, still blame-shifting)
Post by
306612
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Rankkor
Though the guide he is referring to is full of crap because it demonizes alliance for the gnomes accidental irradiation of their own city gnomeregan, so I don't take the guide seriously at all. I also fail to see any evidence of this "moral ambiguity" in game, at least on alliance side as I've only played alliance since wrath, so I find it hard to take zarhym seriously as well.
Indeed, you fail to see.
Also, the fact that you decide to discount information given to you by Blizzard leads me to believe you simply do not wish to see. Some of it can be discounted. That does not make the rest of the information invalid. It does mine the credibility (and it is technically the gnomes' own damn fault if they irradiated their own city - more notably, Gelbin Mekkatorque for listening to Thermaplugg in the first place. There's a reason the gnomes voted for Mekkatorque and NOT for Thermaplugg.)
told ya :P
neither voltaire, nor my grandma are wrong about this (and if you knew my grandma u'd knew she's ALWAYS RIGHT)
"its pointless to teach a blind man what do colors look like"
(Voltaire)
"The worst type of blind man is the type that actually refuses to see"
(Alexia Celeste Villalobos :P my grandma)
anyhow, to sum this up:
the war hasn't ended because of the following factors:
A: both sides are too strong. If one side was weaker than the other, then one would had already dominated and forced the other to capitulate.
B: A lot of crap happened in the first and second war, as a result there's too much black blood between mainly humans and orcs, but also night elves and trolls, goblins and gnomes, worgens and forsakens, and a large ect. Its hard for some to put this black blood behind them and let old grudges die.
C: There's actual people in several ranks of power (from lower class soldiers to actual racial leaders) who WANT the war to continue, and thus these drag the others under their command to war with them.
D: Outsiders have fanned the flames between both factions when they actually wanted to put diplomacy first. The most devastating one was the Theramoore Summit where the horde and alliance ALMOST had full peace, and the druid meeting in ashenvale was the final drop in the bucket. But there's also their meddling on Cycle of Hatred and them infiltrating the alliance gunship on deepholm, poisoning their crew, and using the ship to sink the horde one.
E: while there ARE people within both factions who want the war to end (Alliance side: Jaina, Velen, Nobundo, ect Horde Side: Thrall, Baine, Saurfang ect) they are sadly, a vocal minority.
Post by
588688
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Rankkor
Who is this "everyone" that agrees with you rank?
have you seen anyone else agreeing with you?
Edit: to be more accurate this is a debate as old as time, a dead horse that has been beaten without mercy or restraint for the past 4 years (more zealously so by "certain" users whose names must not be mentioned) and believe me I've been there for quite some time.
the common denominator that EVERYONE (horde fans such as myself, or skreeran, or highvolt, or alliance fans like adams, funden, and delt) agrees that both factions have the blame for their stupid war.
neither side wants to admit being wrong, neither side is willing to compromise at a global scale, both sides have done some atrocious acts against the other, and the worst part, the very VERY few times they have actually TRIED to get along, an outside faction (Such as the legion or the twilight hammer) drives a massive wedge between them, and seeing how eager they often are to go at each other's throats, its not even hard in the first place.
Post by
Behelich
Not sure if posting on-topic, but I think there is a viable explanation for some of the staunch, fervent Alliance supporters. If we come back to basics, it is easier for us to associate ourselves with fellow humans, and treat the 'monstrous' (using the term broadly there) races as enemies. As in, maybe the looks matter more for some than the soul (which reminds of an idea some of my peers tended to bring up in the past, the Alliance races being 'prettier' and 'more civilized' in contrast to 'ugly and monstrous' Hordelings).
Post by
Monday
dont bother sigmafel, as I said before, the worst type of blind is the sort that refuses to see.
and funden I still didn't quite got what you meant :P send me a line at my email
I never got one from you, and you don't have an email listed =P
My email's in my profile.
Post by
pezz
Not sure if posting on-topic, but I think there is a viable explanation for some of the staunch, fervent Alliance supporters. If we come back to basics, it is easier for us to associate ourselves with fellow humans, and treat the 'monstrous' (using the term broadly there) races as enemies. As in, maybe the looks matter more for some than the soul (which reminds of an idea some of my peers tended to bring up in the past, the Alliance races being 'prettier' and 'more civilized' in contrast to 'ugly and monstrous' Hordelings).
But even so, between tentacle faces and werewolves you'd think those factions of the alliance would've either left in disgust or shut their mouths by now. It used to be true, and I'd still say on balance the alliance overall looks less weird than the horde, but it's hardly black and white anymore, since TBC and Cata.
Post by
367020
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
306612
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Adamsm
And Pezz, the posters right here prove why the war will go on forever.
Post by
Rankkor
And Pezz, the posters right here prove why the war will go on forever.
not "forever" forever.
The alliance and horde HAVE been willing to put aside their differences before, and on 2 occasions too, be able to shake hands, make peace,
smoke a big pipe
and all that shenanigans.
If they weren't able to, is because someone else stirred the pot, but eventually, wow will reach its story conclusion (likely when the legion is vanquished and sargeras defeated for good, as well as the old gods) and then without more meddlers to interrupt, there can FINNALY be peace.
but yes, as long as the actual MMO World of Warcraft exists, there can't be peace between the factions, I can totally see peace once wow is done and they put either a warcraft 4, or a couple of books to tie up the story.
Post by
Adamsm
I don't know about that Rank; certain races have been warring eternally without the addition of outside forces: Trolls and Elves, Silithids against everyone else, Elves vs Elves, Humans against Humans, and so on and so forth. Alright Sargeras is destroyed...but people died to members of both Factions who went rogue and joined up with the Legion: those who had family members killed by them will keep the hate going. Only way would be to split all the races up to their own worlds, and that may not even work: Original orcs were split up into their own clans and fought among themselves, as did the humans nations.....about the only ones who may be alright would be the Draenei, and the Tauren if they have the Grimtotems further segregated.
Post by
588688
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Rankkor
For the last freaking time I never said that alliance wasn't also to blame:
I said both sides weren't equally to blame, but they're both to blame.
saying that one side deserves MORE of the blame than the other is like downplaying the blame of your side.
They ARE equally to blame, and everyone agrees except you.
Post by
588688
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Behelich
Forsaken have committed many atrocities, but I guess that Horde's part of blame is concentrated on them, while Alliance's (which is, may I add, is in no way bigger or lesser) is equispread over all the races (sans draenei, perhaps).
Post by
Mojoworkn
Not sure if posting on-topic, but I think there is a viable explanation for some of the staunch, fervent Alliance supporters. If we come back to basics, it is easier for us to associate ourselves with fellow humans, and treat the 'monstrous' (using the term broadly there) races as enemies. As in, maybe the looks matter more for some than the soul (which reminds of an idea some of my peers tended to bring up in the past, the Alliance races being 'prettier' and 'more civilized' in contrast to 'ugly and monstrous' Hordelings).
:)
Post by
588688
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
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