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10.2.5
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10.2.6
Double Jeopardy
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Post by
Magician22773
Take a look at Singapore. They have what is likely the strictest death penalty laws of any modern society. The death penalty is MANDATORY for any murder or kidnapping. They also execute people for drug distribution and production. One judge handles all death penalty cases, and you get 1 appeal. After that, you have between 2 weeks and 1 month, then you are hanged. End of story.
The country has a population roughly the same as Los Angeles CA, yet had only 8 murders in 2008. LA averages 3-4 murders per day. Overall, Singapore has one of the lowest per capita crime rates of any country. It also has one of the lowest drug abuse rates as well.
While I am sure it would take a western society a while to adapt, I guarantee even the street level gang members would eventually start to think twice before pulling the trigger if they KNEW the only sentence for murder was to be hanged.
As for (yet again) trying to pull the Christianity argument here. The Bible is very clear about death as a punishment, both in the Old Testament and the New. Whoever sheds man's blood, by man his blood shall be shed... Gen. 9:6
He who strikes a man so that he dies shall surely be put to death." Ex. 21:12
Whoever kills any man shall surely be put to death" Lev. 24:17
Post by
Jubilee
Austria is right down there with Singapore, 0.69 intentional homicides per 100 000 compared to 0.44 per 100 00 in 2005-6, and Austria has no death penalty. If you're going to make comparisons, there needs to be a level playing field. It doesn't help anyone if you take the best example for your position and compare it to the worst example of the other side.
Post by
Heckler
As for (yet again) trying to pull the Christianity argument here. The Bible is very clear about death as a punishment, both in the Old Testament and the New.
Just so I don't have to go looking, can you show me where death penalty support can be found in the new testament? I'm looking on my own right now, and the only reason I'm curious is because I find "contradictions" between old and new testament 'interesting' for my own non-religious reasons.
So far I've found Rev. 13:10; 1 Tim. 1:8-9; Rom. 13:4 cited as "Christ endorsing capital punishment" so I'm researching them now (I'm chiefly concerned with Jesus' opinion here).
After reading these passages, they seem pretty weak to me. All I can find is Jesus endorsing capital punishment if you "curse your father or mother" (Mark 7:8-11 and Mat. 15:3-4), but even this seems 'weak' -- he's less endorsing it than simply addressing its existence in the old testament. Please let me know where I can find more explicit support in the New Testament.
Post by
168916
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
gamerunknown
The best support for the death penalty from a Christian point of view would be Jesus proclaiming that he didn't come to erase "a jot nor tittle" of the OT law. So no shrimp, mixed fibres, staying in town while menstruating, etc. Then of course there's the crucifix as a constant reminder that the death penalty is flawless. After all, if the death penalty was good enough for Jesus, it's good enough for me!
Singapore also negates the concept of "presume innocent" in cases regarding drug trafficking, as well as executing foreign nationals. Great precedents eh?
Also, funnily enough, two countries regularly mentioned as having the lowest rates of drug abuse in the Western world are the Netherlands and Sweden - no joke. Sweden's policy is to treat addiction as a disease and the Netherlands has decriminalised marijuana. Many more Americans report having tried marijuana than those living in the Netherlands. But I guess the West can't compete with countries like Iran, which along with its zero rates of homosexuality presumably has no drug abuse either.
Post by
Heckler
Then of course there's the crucifix as a constant reminder that the death penalty is flawless.
That might be the 'strongest' support I've found in the new testament, one of the two men hanging next to Jesus on the crucifix said "We are punished justly, for we are getting what our deeds deserve." (Luke 23:41) and Jesus didn't object to or affirm his statement... so I suppose you could call that an affirmation by default. Still feels weak.
Post by
207044
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
gamerunknown
I'm not a fan of guns myself, but Finland has a very high gun ownership rate and very low homicide by firearm rate, so obviously simply owning a gun is a necessary but not a sufficient cause of large numbers of gun homicides. It's just that in states where gun homicides are already prevalent, that actually taking the weapons used to perpetrate the crimes away can't even enter the dialogue due to the second amendment. Reaching the education or gun safety or cultural approach of Finland (maybe their low gun crime rate is due to the fact that all citizens are drafted) isn't likely to happen overnight, but some sort of gun incident *is* likely to do so.
Another instance where guns are vastly more volatile than other weapons (apart from explosives) is in mass murders. Some serial killers opt for knives and other blunt objects, but it is much rarer for a lone knifeman to take out scores of people than for a gunman to do so.
The final issue I have with guns is when parents buy them to "protect their kids". I read stats which indicated that kids 1-19 are far more likely to die as a result of having a gun in the home, either by accident or suicide, than in a burglary.
Oh and as a random aside, ElhonnaDS, I'm submitting an article based on Amanda Knox to a local newspaper (they're looking for articles from students). Would you mind if I gave you as the source for the link extradition treaty between the US and Italy?
Post by
207044
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
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