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A student's prayer.
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Post by
Atik
We do not "blindly" follow a book. We read that book, and study its content, and then choose to believe what is written in that book
WHY though. I don't understand WHY.
The "gospel" books of the Bible (Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John) are eyewitness accounts of the life of Jesus, written seperately by four men who walked with him, and witnessed His miracles, and learned His teachings.
And you believe them because... ?
If 4 scientists observed some molecular event, then wrote about it, it would be called a textbook, and would be taught in schools.
And the event would need to be repeatable in order for it to be a fact. So I could see it for myself.
I can't go around bleeding wine, no matter how badly I wish to.
Acts 1:3 says Jesus “presented himself to and gave many convincing proofs that he was alive. He appeared to them over a period of forty days and spoke about the kingdom of God.
And you have no tangible reason to believe it was him at all, or that it even happened.
Jesus did this so we would not have to rely on "Blind" faith. He showed Himself to thousands of people so that their would be "Proof" of the ressurection. Believing in Jesus, to me, is no more difficult than believing in ancient Rome.
While, yeah. We have proof he was alive. Prood he came back? Not so much.
Really, there is a good chance many followers didn't even get to know Jesus, like how few knew their rulers. If someone that looked similiar came up and said "Yo dudes, it's me Jesus." There is a good chance most would take it as truth for the time.
This is the part where as a Christian, I get all the "proof" I need. God's spirit is felt within my own, assuring me that I am saved.
I... honestly don't even understand what this means...
This statement doesn't even make sense. Not only does Cloud Man have no evidence of himself, there is no evidence of his or my spirit, or that they are touching.
And frankly? That would just creep me the !@#$ out.
Post by
Adamsm
All comes down to the same simple truth: He has Faith.
Post by
Atik
All comes down to the same simple truth: He has Faith.
For what reason though?
There needs to be SOME basis, something that causes him to look and say "yup, think this is it." against the countless other religions whose arguements are, usually, just as valid.
Post by
Adamsm
All comes down to the same simple truth: He has Faith.
For what reason though?
There needs to be SOME basis, something that causes him to look and say "yup, think this is it." against the countless other religions whose arguements are, usually, just as valid.
For the exact same reason you see Atheism as the 'truth', it's really as simple as that.
Post by
Atik
All comes down to the same simple truth: He has Faith.
For what reason though?
There needs to be SOME basis, something that causes him to look and say "yup, think this is it." against the countless other religions whose arguements are, usually, just as valid.
For the exact same reason you see Atheism as the 'truth', it's really as simple as that.
I see atheism as truth because of what I posted above. Noone offers me any proof for their religions truth, while I can offer a lot of proof that steers AGAINST religion; most of which I have already mentioned in this thread.
Hyper tried to call that one before; saying that I needed faith in there being no religions. Personnally? I don't even understand what faith is, much less have any in a diety or whatever.
Post by
Adamsm
I see atheism as truth because of what I posted above. Noone offers me any proof for their religions truth, while I can offer a lot of proof that steers AGAINST religion; most of which I have already mentioned in this thread.
Hyper tried to call that one before; saying that I needed faith in there being no religions. Personnally? I don't even understand what faith is, much less have any in a diety or whatever.
Well that's the main thing...we don't have to offer you any proof at all, as we aren't trying to convert you; you don't want to believe that's fine. But Atik, you haven't offered a single shred of proof that God doesn't exist, that the Goddess and the Hunter I follow don't exist, or that any deity or religion is wrong.
As for not knowing what faith is well....that's wrong: You have faith in Science and your own views; there you go.
Post by
gamerunknown
One doesn't need to have faith in science - it describes observable reality. One has to believe in a few things about observable reality in order to function, but one doesn't have to hold them in faith. It may be a matter of faith that the laws of science are immutable throughout the universe given that not all of the universe is observable and that just because they work in the observed universe doesn't mean that they'll be compatible with some arcane corner with it (problem of simple enumeration IIRC).
And the event would need to be repeatable in order for it to be a fact
Not necessarily - the evolution of man isn't something that will be replicated in the lab. I think there are two types of evidence, replicable and forensic. History mainly deals with forensic. The issue is of course how much is riding on whether the details of the Quran, the New Testament or the Book of Mormon are accurate. One can believe that Euler really existed rather than was a narrative hook for a collection of disparate ideas and it wont really affect ones life either way (most people see no reason to doubt his existence or achievements). However a lot more credence is given to fantastic claims about the life of Jesus based on similar evidence - credence that cannot be given to the mutually exclusive claims of the Quran. Faith or divine inspiration is used to explain the unshakeable feeling one has towards one's religion, but...
For the exact same reason you see Atheism as the 'truth', it's really as simple as that.
Atheism is the default position. To paraphrase Dawkins, atheists just disbelieve in one more God than most people. No child is born with religion, but few children leave the religion of their childhood without some kind of temporal benefit.
Edit: Oh, "In God We Trust" was only mandated on US currency as a result of campaigning by the Knights of Columbus in the 1950s or so. It had existed on currency in informal form before then and of course the Star Spangled Banner has the phrase, along with the Constitution using similar language. Of course, there's the argument that spending the money on ink violates the wall of separation... Not to mention the fact that the currency has without a doubt been used to purchase some ungodly things.
Post by
Adamsm
For the exact same reason you see Atheism as the 'truth', it's really as simple as that.
Atheism is the default position. To paraphrase Dawkins, atheists just disbelieve in one more God than most people. No child is born with religion, but few children leave the religion of their childhood without some kind of temporal benefit.
Not the point I was going for when I made that comment.
Post by
204878
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Post by
296147
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Post by
168916
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Post by
Atik
Well that's the main thing...we don't have to offer you any proof at all, as we aren't trying to convert you; you don't want to believe that's fine. But Atik, you haven't offered a single shred of proof that God doesn't exist, that the Goddess and the Hunter I follow don't exist, or that any deity or religion is wrong.
1.
In ancient times, religion was created because people lacked the means to explain how the world worked. This made it scary; the thought that early civilizations like Egypt had no idea why there would be floods or storms. So they created absurdly power humanoidss; something they could understand and relate too.
Judism and Islam took it a step further. Rather than a group of humanoids, the made it one. One 'benevolent' deity, keeping it extremely simple.
However, we now know the world is round. We now know lightning is not cuased by Zeus. So why do we keep believing in these figures who really have no link to the world we live in?
2.
Governments have used religion as a means of control... a LOT. Sometimes it is even the religion being controlling. Christianity tried to stop science at every turn; the dark ages. And even today. Imagine what amazing advancements we could make if religion didn't lead to human rights activists or allowed stem cell research? Hell, it is the main cause of racism, sexism, and homophobia.
If these deities really did exsist, and were so powerful, why would they allow their link to the world to be twisted so?
3.
If one challanges religious beliefs, the common reaction is comparable to when people challanged the idea that the world was flat or the center of the universe.
As for not knowing what faith is well....that's wrong: You have faith in Science and your own views; there you go.
No, I don't. I have personal proof. I can repeat scientific laws and experiance them myself. Faith isn't requiered.
Post by
238331
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Adamsm
But Atik, you haven't offered a single shred of proof that God doesn't exist, that the Goddess and the Hunter I follow don't exist, or that any deity or religion is wrong.
Shifting the burden of proof.Not in this case; I don't go around trying convert others, so if someone doesn't believe that's their choice: Hell, in some cases, even if a god came down to Earth and said it was whoever it was(lower case g for a reason), you know a lot of people would still deny them right off the back and just say it's some kind of alien/sufficiently evolved being.
Well that's the main thing...we don't have to offer you any proof at all, as we aren't trying to convert you; you don't want to believe that's fine. But Atik, you haven't offered a single shred of proof that God doesn't exist, that the Goddess and the Hunter I follow don't exist, or that any deity or religion is wrong.
1.
In ancient times, religion was created because people lacked the means to explain how the world worked. This made it scary; the thought that early civilizations like Egypt had no idea why there would be floods or storms. So they created absurdly power humanoidss; something they could understand and relate too.
Judism and Islam took it a step further. Rather than a group of humanoids, the made it one. One 'benevolent' deity, keeping it extremely simple.
However, we now know the world is round. We now know lightning is not cuased by Zeus. So why do we keep believing in these figures who really have no link to the world we live in?
2.
Governments have used religion as a means of control... a LOT. Sometimes it is even the religion being controlling. Christianity tried to stop science at every turn; the dark ages. And even today. Imagine what amazing advancements we could make if religion didn't lead to human rights activists or allowed stem cell research? Hell, it is the main cause of racism, sexism, and homophobia.
If these deities really did exsist, and were so powerful, why would they allow their link to the world to be twisted so?
3.
If one challanges religious beliefs, the common reaction is comparable to when people challanged the idea that the world was flat or the center of the universe.That's still not 'proof' by any stretch; and none that shakes my faith.
Edit: Also about the 'racism, sexism and homophobia'....since all three of those exist in non-religious types, I'd say that view is a little skewed.....
Post by
gamerunknown
^ Fides, I suppose.
But Atik, you haven't offered a single shred of proof that God doesn't exist
Null hypothesis - something doesn't exist until there is evidence for it. One cannot provide evidence of non-existence.
Post by
Adamsm
But Atik, you haven't offered a single shred of proof that God doesn't exist
Null hypothesis - something doesn't exist until there is evidence for it. One cannot provide evidence of non-existence.
He said he had proof that the Religions were wrong; I've yet to see any of that.
Post by
Atik
How is that not proof? The fact that the entire reason for religions no longer has any foundation kind of nails it as far as I am concerned.
Post by
238331
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Jubilee
something doesn't exist until there is evidence for it.
Really? You don't believe things exist prior to our discovery of them?
Post by
OverZealous
something doesn't exist until there is evidence for it.
Really? You don't believe things exist prior to our discovery of them?
This.
I really don't see how you can believe that - I mean, does that mean that other galaxies(atoms? gravity? Hell, almost anything) have not existed for more than a couple of hundred years because we have not known about them for longer? Makes no sense.
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