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How to get LFD pugs to use lightwell
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Post by
wrlwnd
I was pleasantly surprised with a run this morning. EVERY one knew how to use the lightwell and did it well during the boss fights.
Post by
DraconisAerius
Yeah the difference between a good run and a bad run is very very noticeable. Did ZG on my dk tank last night in under 30 mins, just because everyone in the group knew what they were doing.
Post by
551364
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Trishi
Congrats on grouping with a tank who is in a guild that is present on every server. It's like the guild equivalent of Legolas.
You think I didn't check? noob.
How exactly does that make him a noob?
More like "Idiot", but I suppose the source quote didn't quite make it obvious that he knew he was from the "real" Paragon.
It's not any better in the real world either. I'm a Nurse.
This nailed it. I'm seeing a therapist at the moment, and I have spoken to a few others while waiting for my turn. It's truly
amazing
how some people see the world. One of them complained about having been in a depression for 6 months, and that is was because the
therapist
was incompetent. Nevermind the fact that a depression is impossible to solve for other people. It always come down to your own effort, yet people constantly assume that they can just shove all kinds of responsibility onto others, and focus on their own little(or, in most cases,
large
) ego.
Why would people think topping the DPS chart is more important than surviving throughout the fight? It's that point I have never understood. Standing in the fire doesn't improve your dps - in fact, it decreases it if you die. Clicking the Lightwell doesn't decrease your dps, not even by 1 point, unless you really suck at multitasking. Dying does. This obvious fact seems to be non-existant to most dps.
Hell, forget Lightwell. People wont even take their time to use a simple CD when getting attacked. Even simple CDs that is not even the least detrimental to your dps, like Divine Protection or Barkskin, are often neglected completely. And I can remember 2 DPS DKs in total, who actually used AMS to prevent a magic damage spike.
Just because you aren't tanking, you still take damage. Any effort to mitigate that, either through self-healing (including Lightwell), using CDs, or just plain avoiding it, as much as possible is a way to ensure that the run will go wipe-free. This applies to healers as well, I might add.
With all that said, Giving a small message that you dropped Lightwell, and clicking it is good, will give a heads-up to some of the newer players, who are still trying to adjust to playing, and still learning tactics, ect. I know quite a few people in my guild who greatly appreaciates Holy Priests using a macro/add-on like that, because they sometimes don't notice it.
Post by
Onijitsu
Thanks for the compliment, Trishi.
Been thinking over this issue a bit more -- surprisingly -- over the past few days, and came to some realizations. I think DPS work to crank out the DPS so that they can not only best one another, but so they can justify their position in any team. We all know that DPS are often treated as being "a dime a dozen"... cheap and easy to replace. Like they are the lowest caste in our game's caste system. I don't entirely agree with it, but I also don't entirely disagree either. Their attitudes (about healing and fight mechanics) are what cause me to feel that many DPS players are easily more expendable members of the team. Even if they pull more DPS than their mechanics-following cohorts.
So basically? Maybe the basic approach needs to be changed? I have no idea how to do this on a macro-level, across the game, I'll admit. But, if we can create more clear expectations that everyone ought to be able to do X, Y, Z in a given fight, regardless of their role, it might help.
You will never get some people to care enough about it. Ever. But you may affect some of the smarter persons. That's all you can really hope for. Perhaps the only other change which can be made is in our own attitudes about it...? Provide the opportunity. Do what you can. Don't overextend yourself and OOM, leading to the wipe of the group, over stupid people. And when stupid people act like stupid people, point out the fact that: "
Hey! You had a Lightwell right next to you. Why didn't YOU click it? Why didn't you use your Lock cookie? Oh and by the way, let me point something out... since you aren't a Tank or Healer, and you're repeatedly standing in the poo? It's my job as the Healer to triage whom I need to save first and save most. Because YOU are being stupid, YOU were the most expendable. I did my job right. You didn't do yours. L2P newb.
"
Let me just say... I love a good DPS player who pulls good numbers, uses his full abilities to help the raid succeed (especially those not directly connected with MOAR DAMGE!), and who doesn't stand in the poo. I take special care of these people, both when healing and otherwise. I've even made some of them new 365 weapons out of my own mats. And if anyone else in my team feels slighted, because they didn't get a free handout too? I'll tell them why they didn't qualify... and what they have to do in order to qualify. With one or two of them, it worked. A couple of others left. But hey... those leavin' folk are a dime a dozen. Right? ;-)
Post by
gane
Bravo!
Post by
ZoraLink
Thanks for the compliment, Trishi.
Been thinking over this issue a bit more -- surprisingly -- over the past few days, and came to some realizations. I think DPS work to crank out the DPS so that they can not only best one another, but so they can justify their position in any team. We all know that DPS are often treated as being "a dime a dozen"... cheap and easy to replace. Like they are the lowest caste in our game's caste system. I don't entirely agree with it, but I also don't entirely disagree either. Their attitudes (about healing and fight mechanics) are what cause me to feel that many DPS players are easily more expendable members of the team. Even if they pull more DPS than their mechanics-following cohorts.
So basically? Maybe the basic approach needs to be changed? I have no idea how to do this on a macro-level, across the game, I'll admit. But, if we can create more clear expectations that everyone ought to be able to do X, Y, Z in a given fight, regardless of their role, it might help.
You will never get some people to care enough about it. Ever. But you may affect some of the smarter persons. That's all you can really hope for. Perhaps the only other change which can be made is in our own attitudes about it...? Provide the opportunity. Do what you can. Don't overextend yourself and OOM, leading to the wipe of the group, over stupid people. And when stupid people act like stupid people, point out the fact that: "
Hey! You had a Lightwell right next to you. Why didn't YOU click it? Why didn't you use your Lock cookie? Oh and by the way, let me point something out... since you aren't a Tank or Healer, and you're repeatedly standing in the poo? It's my job as the Healer to triage whom I need to save first and save most. Because YOU are being stupid, YOU were the most expendable. I did my job right. You didn't do yours. L2P newb.
"
Let me just say... I love a good DPS player who pulls good numbers, uses his full abilities to help the raid succeed (especially those not directly connected with MOAR DAMGE!), and who doesn't stand in the poo. I take special care of these people, both when healing and otherwise. I've even made some of them new 365 weapons out of my own mats. And if anyone else in my team feels slighted, because they didn't get a free handout too? I'll tell them why they didn't qualify... and what they have to do in order to qualify. With one or two of them, it worked. A couple of others left. But hey... those leavin' folk are a dime a dozen. Right? ;-)
I just respond with a simpler:
"I can't heal stupid."
Post by
TheReal
Pretty much everybody runs with DBM, right? Someone should write a DBM module that adds a lightwell message to the raid warning frame. Might help a little.
Post by
Onijitsu
Agreed. Still think it would be nice if the Lightwell were designed such that people could use a macro -- and ENFORCE it upon their raiders -- in order to use the Lightwell.
Going back to the OP's original problem? LFG dungeons? It's hard enough to get a regular bunch of guildies to do it. To really get random people in a random dungeon to do it? Far harder. *shrug* Not impossible, but if your expectation is that they will all use it, and make your job easier you are going to be disappointed.
Post by
Raleandris
My biggest problem with Lightwell is that even if it's placed in the open, as a melee character, I often have a massive amount of boss crotch being shoved down my throat. Despite my best efforts to click on it, the boss / environment or whatever else can easily get in the way and really distract from it. A macroable command to click on it would make it infinitely better.
Post by
Onijitsu
My biggest problem with Lightwell is that even if it's placed in the open, as a melee character, I often have a massive amount of boss crotch being shoved down my throat. Despite my best efforts to click on it, the boss / environment or whatever else can easily get in the way and really distract from it. A macroable command to click on it would make it infinitely better.
I play melee characters too. I've both DPS'ed and tanked. I've also traditionally had my healers in melee range, because my Paladin benefits from it, and because my Priest and my Shammy used to. (Getting mana from Judgement of Wisdom, until that mechanic was changed to a single Judgement that only benefitted Paladins)
I think we're in agreement that Blizzard could make the Lightwell MUCH more accessible to players who would be willing to use a macro to activate it. I get that it can be easier for big bosses to get in your way? However, I've almost always been able to find positioning for my camera -- especially, if I stay zoomed out -- that doesn't prevent me from using a Lightwell, as long as the Lightwell isn't shoved into the Boss's crotch too. Some of the accessability of a Lightwell is where a Priest puts it, naturally.
I DO know I've had problems with environmental structures. Like the throne, on the Cho fight. Instead of tanking the last phase on the throne, we do it to the side, against a wall, because those spiky structures apparently mess with some of the DPS in our group.
Post by
Aellre
I only throw down a Lightwell in dungeons so I can click it myself. If anyone else does, w00t, but I don't really expect people to anymore.
Post by
Onijitsu
I actually had a Priest ***** me out because I clicked the lightwell to get the HoT rolling before running into a heavy-damage fight.
Really? Shouldn't he have just been happy that I was using it?
Post by
551364
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
ZoraLink
So we're now discussing what changes could be made so the lightwell could be more effectively used...
Maybe Blizz should just change it so people dont need to click on it and it simply heals them automatically if they go below 25% health
I'd prefer if it simply worked like the lightwells in ToC, where it fires off bursts of healing to those around it. AKA, similar to healing rain, but with bursts instead of a HoT.
Post by
Onijitsu
So we're now discussing what changes could be made so the lightwell could be more effectively used...
Maybe Blizz should just change it so people dont need to click on it and it simply heals them automatically if they go below 25% health
I'd prefer if it simply worked like the lightwells in ToC, where it fires off bursts of healing to those around it. AKA, similar to healing rain, but with bursts instead of a HoT.
That's actually a really,
REALLY
good idea...
Priest places a Lightwell. You can click it for a HoT. Or, it can autoheal targets within X distance as they take Y amount of damage. Almost makes me think they ought to make Lightwells available to Disc Priests.
Post by
Lenience
So we're now discussing what changes could be made so the lightwell could be more effectively used...
Maybe Blizz should just change it so people dont need to click on it and it simply heals them automatically if they go below 25% health
I'd prefer if it simply worked like the lightwells in ToC, where it fires off bursts of healing to those around it. AKA, similar to healing rain, but with bursts instead of a HoT.
That's a really good idea, but that change will be very far into the future.
You cannot force people to use the lightwell, just drop it, tell em' and hope they realize. Which is probably a tiny chance.
Post by
Gnoktish
LFD pugs tend to ignore the flashy bowl, but you need to place more importance on it. Maybe dropping it infront of the boss can catch their attention. Once the lightwell catches their attention, they'll learn it's ability. But be cautious on which bosses you drop it on. Moving bosses dont help alot with it. Stationary bosses can help dps click on it while fighting.
Post by
Trishi
LFD pugs tend to ignore the flashy bowl, but you need to place more importance on it. Maybe dropping it infront of the boss can catch their attention. Once the lightwell catches their attention, they'll learn it's ability. But be cautious on which bosses you drop it on. Moving bosses dont help alot with it. Stationary bosses can help dps click on it while fighting.
Since the range isn't exactly a short one, it really shouldn't be much of a problem anyway, as long as the Priest places it intelligently. Of course, some fights means moving too far away from the Lightwell, but that's the minority.
Post by
Meggie
Maybe with transmogrification we can shape the lightwell into a twinkling lootable mob corpse.
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