This site makes extensive use of JavaScript.
Please enable JavaScript in your browser.
Live
PTR
10.2.7
PTR
10.2.6
Beta
Possible Threat Change in 4.3
Post Reply
Return to board index
Post by
Interest
This article should be called "One step backwards to WotLK"
It is SOOOOOO obvious they are doing this to counter the 900k subs that have been lost. Bring the casual back to the game.
Fyi not at all condemning this, just making a point. This will tempt me to play my pally more.
How about the fact that Tanks are still the role that is bottlenecking the RDF? Tanking is obviously
not
fun for the vast majority of people, or there would be more Tanks (especially given all the explicit and implicit rewards of being a Tank). Plain and simple.
That said, I'm a little ambivalent about this change. On the one hand, I'm all for anything that makes a Tank's life easier. On the other hand, I'm not sure Threat was what we needed the most help with. Maintaining Threat was already relatively easy in this expansion. Not as easy as Wrath, but nowhere near Vanilla-hard either.
I think it has something to do with aforementioned issues that we have to trade out threat stats for avoidance. Blizzard is probably trying to kill the problem before it buds out to full bloom by Patch 4.3 - 4.4 when we reach higher tiers.
Post by
303025
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Interest
From reading that article, I was left with the impression that Blizz wants to make threat stats more important while at the same time making threat irrelevant (which it already is after the first 30 seconds of a boss fight). I just can't really figure out what they're trying to fix. As a prot warrior, I almost never have problems with threat as long as the DPS give me 2 or 3 GCDs to establish some threat.
However, I am looking forward to survival being more interactive. But at the same time I feel like it will just be something like "switch from Heroic Strike to XXX when you're taking/about to take heavy damage" and nothing more. If it's more like the blood DK model where one of your core abilities will be your survival skill, I highly doubt tanking will become "super compelling gameplay" for those who don't already enjoy tanking.
But you can never be sure, so we'll have to see how it's implemented.
I translated it as more of a "one or the other" (threat stats or simplified threat mechanics) sort of deal.
The problem with just boosting threat stats is that either:
A. Less avoidance will result in higher incoming tank damage.
B. As a result the buff would need to be pretty damn significant, which may or may not affect other classes (as it's Expertise/Hit).
Therefore:
-It's easier just to simplify threat mechanics and balance around avoidance priority.
Post by
Magician22773
What is this? I don't even.....
April Fools?
Is Ghoscrawler drinking again?
So, now as a tank, I just gotta go smack a mob a couple times....and the uber HC raid geared mage can crit all over him for a couple hundred thousand, and hes still gonna be pissed at me?
"players will no longer need threat meters".....meaning that pulling threat will no longer be possible. Way to pretty much nerf every encounter by about 25% there GC.
Tanks Roles:
Hold Aggro
Stay outa fire
Heals Roles:
Keep tank alive
Save DPS that pull aggro
DPS Roles:
Kill Stuff
Don't pull aggro
Stay outa fire
How much more dumbed down do they need to make this game?
Post by
691268
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Interest
What is this? I don't even.....
April Fools?
Is Ghoscrawler drinking again?
So, now as a tank, I just gotta go smack a mob a couple times....and the uber HC raid geared mage can crit all over him for a couple hundred thousand, and hes still gonna be pissed at me?
"players will no longer need threat meters".....meaning that pulling threat will no longer be possible. Way to pretty much nerf every encounter by about 25% there GC.
Tanks Roles:
Hold Aggro
Stay outa fire
Heals Roles:
Keep tank alive
Save DPS that pull aggro
DPS Roles:
Kill Stuff
Don't pull aggro
Stay outa fire
How much more dumbed down do they need to make this game?
I doubt they will allow it to be THAT dumbed down.
Post by
162723
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
349684
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
ZombieJesus
Personally as I have two tanks and hardly dps I am very happy with this.
Beforehand I had to use HoS, Intercept to save someone when they overaggro.
I didn't have to, but I did, because I believe I am a good tank. This will make it easier.
We'll have to wait and see. Sounds as if Blizzard wants me to focus more on staying alive than keeping my party alive with cooldowns and tricks.
Side note: My Fury Warrior is over the moon ;D
Post by
lonewarrior
When Blizz started catering to the less mature minded players...this is what you end up with.
Tanking works just fine when your running with a known quantity(aka. guild).
This was how the game was originally designed to function and it worked.
Just like in any other team endeavor, you join, get to know your teammates, you sharpen your skills and teamwork and it all falls into place with some practice.
Now...it's LFD pugs galore. It doesn't work. How do they fix it? With nerfs. Nerfed bosses, nerfed damage, nerfed mechanics, nerfed skills, nerfed nerfs.
Sorry but I have to laugh..does no one at blizz get it. Hasn't the sub drops opened any eyes.
It's not the game mechanics...it's the people your bringing in who are trying to learn this game at the top instead of on the way up. Blizz has designed this game now with a sense of expediency, rather then a sense of purpose during the leveling phase and you end up with players at 85 who know half of what they should know about their class and how to perform in a run/raid.
Seriously...have any of you tanks out there around before LFD was implemented ever suffered through the degree of failure you do now, more so then when you had to spam tradechat or wait for friends to log on to complete a group and do a run. The wait time isn't any shorter for LFD's waiting on tank/healers to que. The only reason LFD worked at first was because there was a core of established well gear players who could carried a lousy player or 2. Now it exposes the weakness of Blizz implementation of catering to pugs/anonymity rather then to have maintained Guild/server bonding as the crux for progression.
This is sort of like the nation park bears....you keep handing feeding them and each subsequent generations learns less and less about how to survive in the wild. It gets to the point where all they do is rummage through garbage, instead of working a stream for fish like nature intended. Just a bear in name only now.
Blizz keeps doing what their doing and your going to create just a bunch of rummaging players who are just hunters,mages.rogues, tanks,healers...etc in name only as well.
Post by
deathbeyond
@lonewarrior
Your analogy is extremely flawed. No matter how they nerf threat, you still HAVE to have a tank. They aren't making it so that every class can hold threat indefinitely. They are making it so only tanks should have a reasonable chance to hold the aggro, AS LONG, as people give them the first hits on mobs. It still leaves it up to a stupid dps to shotgun pull to make a tanks life harder by having to run around to round up shotgunned mobs.
And as much as I enjoyed the Vanilla days, I have no problem with Blizzard making the game more casual friendly. Saying that everything should be based around you knowing everyone you group with, and running things only with your guild, is outdated and moronic to say. There are 11million plus accounts, say 7-9million actual individual players. You have to get everyone interacting with everyone else somehow. And LFD does that. How else would you interact with other people on other realms(other than through the new option to make RealID parties, which requires you to know the person first?)
Overall, I am welcoming this change. I will start tanking on the new toons I make that are able to spec into it now. After hearing all the issues that tanks have had over the course of this expansion, I was shying away from it very hard. Now I will happily level a pally tank, or DK tank, or bear, w/e. You make a role a little less of a hassle, and people will take it for what it's worth and give a previously unconsidered role a try.
Post by
836277
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
285998
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
ChairmanKaga
It's a solution in search of a problem. There is nothing wrong with tanking today, nor is it "not fun" -- at least in well-organized (guild) groups.
The long queues and lack of tanks thereof have nothing to do with any game mechanic. It has to do with how LFD is basically all the d-baggery of 4chan without the funny cat pictures. Blizzard cannot code around the stupidity of the community it's created.
Post by
ZoraLink
It's a solution in search of a problem. There is nothing wrong with tanking today, nor is it "not fun" -- at least in well-organized (guild) groups.
The long queues and lack of tanks thereof have nothing to do with any game mechanic. It has to do with how LFD is basically all the d-baggery of 4chan without the funny cat pictures. Blizzard cannot code around the stupidity of the community it's created.
I do know one of my frustrations, particularly as a prot warrior tank in queues, is dealing with DPS who cannot understand the concept of focus targetting. As people have said, this is probably a portion of why they're implementing this change. In a way, it will work for RDF, as it will likely help lure me back to my tank as I simply got sick of tanking feeling like a job and chore, rather than enjoying the game due to DPS having their fun PEW PEW'ing. I have a feeling I'm not at all alone there either. Aggro is not a fun mechanic when I simply have no chance to obtain it.
Post by
818479
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Deepthought
My question stays unanswered. will 4.3be the final cata patch?
No one knows, there is no point asking.
Tanks Roles:
Hold Aggro
Stay outa fire
Heals Roles:
Keep tank alive
Save DPS that pull aggro
DPS Roles:
Kill Stuff
Don't pull aggro
Stay outa fireI am perfectly fine with having to concentrate less on holding aggro if it means I have to focus more on staying out of the fire and being active with my survival.
The idea of holding aggro being a major challenge in every boss fight is an archaic and primitive reliance mechanic that was implemented because in the beginning of the game, Blizzard simply did not know how to make a boss more challenging than "He has a fire aoe and if you hit him too much you will get aggro and die."
Post by
836277
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
towa1
How about the fact that Tanks are still the role that is bottlenecking the RDF? Tanking is obviously
not
fun for the vast majority of people, or there would be more Tanks (especially given all the explicit and implicit rewards of being a Tank). Plain and simple.
The sad fact is that heirlooms have made tanks unnecessary for a lot of teams in lower level dungeons, hence a lot of people who create a tank to try it for the first time find that they're left to feel useless and/or are actively subjected to verbal abuse.
Hence a lot of them give up tanking, and we're left with a bunch of oldtimer tanks and a smaller number of new tanks who arrive at 80+ cata dungeons with no meaningful experience whatsoever, and get massive flak there for not knowing how to play their class (when those same people were present with them in older dungeons and prevented them from learning to play their class...).
The very few exceptions to this are people who find (as a low level tank) guilds willing to train them and train them well from the ground up. But such guilds are rare as well, most expect you to gain all your experience in randoms and only show up for guild runs when you're already lvl85 and fully equipped in jp/vp gear if not better.
This^ How about we get rid of the tank role completely?
Post by
Kristopher
I read that in GC's post and I snorted out loud. It's a statement that's true but utterly beside the point. Limiting the damage output in a 5 man dungeon does not make any difference in whether or not the boss dies. As a healer, sometimes the best thing to do is just let the undergeared tank die and heal the dps as they burst down the boss. You could argue that such a strategy is not compelling game play for the tank and I would agree. But that just reinforces my point that what ails tanks is more fundamental than just a vengeance fix.
As a fellow healer (And tank, and DPS) I'm curious as to what constitutes as an undergeared tank, to you. One whose gear is enough, or slightly more than enough for the content, or one whose gear is good (Higher than the content itself), but who has to compete with DPS who are vastly better geared than him?
Post Reply
You are not logged in. Please
log in
to post a reply or
register
if you don't already have an account.