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The Supernatural: Redux
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Post by
gnomerdon
That is not true. My sister is a half-shaman and can cast and use black magic on other people if she wanted to.
edit: here's a link to black magic wiki
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_magic
Post by
Adamsm
Do you ever get tried of trolling Facesmasher?
Post by
gnomerdon
I don't troll, otherwise I'll be wasting my time. I troll in the real life, but I can assure you I am pretty honest in any forum.
Post by
367020
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Patty
That is not true. My sister is a half-shaman and can cast and use black magic on other people if she wanted to.
edit: here's a link to black magic wiki
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_magic
I'm a Red Mage, so I believe you. My stat growth is awful.
Post by
gnomerdon
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shamanism
Post by
Atik
So 'god' was a primative monky or a one-celled organism? Since that is what we started out as and we are in his image?
And adam and eve were single cells in a piri dish called eden?
So the snake was a virus... what was the apple?
Post by
367020
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Adamsm
So 'god' was a primative monky or a one-celled organism? Since that is what we started out as and we are in his image?
And adam and eve were single cells in a piri dish called eden?
So the snake was a virus... what was the apple?
Do... do you understand the meaning of metaphorical?
I'm really guessing not at this point.
Post by
Orranis
That is not true. My sister is a half-shaman and can cast and use black magic on other people if she wanted to.
edit: here's a link to black magic wiki
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_magic
I'm a Red Mage, so I believe you. My stat growth is awful.
I lol'd irl.
What the @#$% is a half-shaman?
Post by
Adamsm
A comment from a troll?
Post by
240140
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Orranis
There is no direct evidence that a divine being created everything we know over the course of six days.
Assuming the Judeo-Christian origin of the world. Assuming creation stories, and a majority of the myths, were not metaphorical.
What about God. Why can't he be metaphorical of creation? I mean, he's a pretty substantial part of the Judeo-Christian origin of the world. There was plenty of metaphor in the Bible, God liked to use metaphor a lot. But I don't think you can claim that all of the clearly untrue statements that were written as having actually happened before questioning whether the thing in its entirety is a metaphor.
There is, however, substantial evidence in favor of actions like the big bang creating the universe and billions of years of the earth slowly forming and evolution leading to the creation of all the species we know.
Which could simply be the mechanisms a deity used to create the world. It's fairly easy to interpret things that way, instead of a scientific explanation refuting the divine.
Oh, and also, the Hellenic creation myth starts in chaos. I'm guessing the Greeks got it right.
Are you familiar with the term
Occam's Razor
?
Chaos is the wrong term, given what it means in English and what it means in Greek. "Void" would be closer to home. However, we can very clearly understand that Gaia and Uranus did not form ex-nihilo and make lots of little Titan and Cyclopes babies.
There is no direct evidence of supernatural beings being magical in any way. It is more logical that there are some sort of scientific explanation for their exsistance and/or most of their actions.
The most logical state is the neutral, agnostic state. Again.
I would disagree. Logic is a principle of reasoning. Logically, you cannot be 100% sure of anything, but Atheists are not 100% sure that God does not exist. That belief is
NOT
agnosticism. Agnosticism is the belief that the truth value of a topic, especially metaphysical claims, is unknown and unknowable. That is the neutral state, however, logically we realize that if nothing is 100% certain, we must use said logic to predict what is most likely in the natural world, through tools such as Occam's Razor.
You offer up the arguement we have no evidence of fair folk, so most people simply go about their lives as if they didn't. But there is no evidence of divine beings or ghosts/angels/demons/ect, but most people live their lives as if they exsist and expect others to do the same.
Am I other people? Hell, I've been arguing that the most logical position is the agnostic one...
Let us be clear, though: there is no scientific evidence. This is because the supernatural often lie outside the realm of scientific observation. Science has nothing to say about the divine because the divine is outside its scope. What evidence we do have of the supernatural is personal, Gnostic experience. For the individual, this works. The issue is using personal Gnosis to try to convince others. It doesn't work that way, or rather, shouldn't work that way. A person should experience the divine or supernatural for themselves, instead of relying on second-hand experiences. But I'm not going to begrudge people that. I have no issue with people believing in the supernatural; for the most part, it's fairly harmless. It's only in the extremes, as with everything else, that you begin running into problems of intolerance, nutjobs, and the like.
What do you mean by the realm of scientific observation? Scientific observation is not a thing. Science is a method of looking at things to discern which situation makes the most sense. If the supernatural does effect the natural world in any way, you being included in the natural world, at the very least science can observe it, if it can't properly attribute it to anything.
Frankly, just because you cannot comprehend something the way another does, does not automatically make the other wrong. Just as I not agreeing with your viewpoint does not automatically make you wrong; we just disagree.
Yes it does. I mean, not in the way you're saying it, it's not "whoever disagrees with me is wrong," but in the end of a debate in which the answers are mutually exclusive, and it is a yes or no question, one of us is wrong. That's logical.
Post by
Adamsm
Yes it does. I mean, not in the way you're saying it, it's not "whoever disagrees with me is wrong," but in the end of a debate in which the answers are mutually exclusive, and it is a yes or no question, one of us is wrong. That's logical.
The issue of course, is that not a lot things are just yes or no. You and Atik say outright no, TagraNar says maybe, I and others say yes. There is no right answer here.
Post by
xaratherus
Yes it does. I mean, not in the way you're saying it, it's not "whoever disagrees with me is wrong," but in the end of a debate in which the answers are mutually exclusive, and it is a yes or no question, one of us is wrong. That's logical.
The issue of course, is that not a lot things are just yes or no. You and Atik say outright no, TagraNar says maybe, I and others say yes. There is no right answer here.
Not sure about this. There
is
some way that all these things - life, the universe, and everything - happened. The answer would be that.
The problem is that none of us know it - or, if one or more of us do actually know it, we don't have sufficient evidence to prove it to everyone else.
To say that there's no "right" answers to these questions is to presume that the those questions came to happen in multiple ways at once.
Of course, I actually somewhat prescribe to the Adams hypothesis: Even if we were given the ultimate answer to life, the universe, and everything, it probably wouldn't do us any good, because I don't think we know the
question
.
Post by
367020
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Atik
How do you test the supernatural?
A better question: how do you observe a deity, in a repeatable fashion, when said deity can do nearly anything, including making things happen without being readily visible?
Do you see how this could be beyond the scope of science, which deals with the natural, observable world?
How can something be beyond the scope of science?
Science is a way of observing and explaining things in a logical fasion. It is literally able to define everything, if not accurately, than at least understandably. That is its entire point.
If something ever actually was beyond the scope of science, I would down right refuse to accept it as anything more than mass hallucination.
Post by
367020
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Jubilee
Here's what I believe.
There is what I like to think of as a "Human Spirit", which is that intangible thing which gives us common intellectual and social grounds. It is what binds us together as brothers and sisters and what governs our actions as humans.
There is a "World Spirit", a force much like what binds humans together, but this binds everything in nature together. It's what allows the world and universe to work in harmony day after day and not descend into complete chaos.
Each individual has a permanent spiritual stake in both the World Spirit and the Human Spirit. This sharing in the whole makes every person live on even after death in a real but non-"ghostly" way.
If there is a God he either exists in and through the World or Human Spirits or outside them. If he is outside them as some esoteric creator, then I don't think we can say anything about him, and we have no reason to anyway. Our realm of being is what it is and we have no stake outside of it. If there is a God or gods within the natural or human order, then they just as much a part of us. It would be a sort of pantheism. I like to believe that both are true, but I can rest easy in the knowledge that I am living my life properly no matter the case.
Post by
Atik
I read it.
My response is that a hammer, while not the most effective tool, damn well CAN to any job you need it to.
As can logic and science. There are troublesome situations for them, but they can and will be able to be of use with everything.
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