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The Supernatural
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Post by
donnymurph
I believe in anything that can be comprehensively and irrefutably proven, either logically or empirically. This is why I'm an atheist, and it's why I don't believe in anything supernatural.
Post by
Skreeran
Thing is, for ghosts and the like, if you have a weird experience, there are a hundred better explanations. If I saw a ghost, or ghostly behaviors, I'd ask myself if I was being paranoid (out of fear of the dark or the environment), or if I was outright hallucinating, for example. Both of those explanations make more sense than ghosts.
Ghosts simply don't make any sense. Human intelligence is simply explained by chemistry and biology. No mysticism, no superstition, no magic. Just science.
Post by
Atik
I believe in anything that can be comprehensively and irrefutably proven, either logically or empirically. This is why I'm an atheist, and it's why I don't believe in anything supernatural.
And if I can prove that there are ghosts?
I am also an athiest, well beyond what you are saying. You could offer me 'proof' of god and I would still deny it.
But ghosts have a lot more going for them. Especially when you encounter events that make you think "f*cking ghosts!"
Post by
Adamsm
Still an immensely ironic comment from a make-believe(well depends on how you actually feel) spell casting creature.
That can't possibly have been the point.Since it's from a cartoon character, an already made up piece of someone's imagination, I don't put it above my own experiences with the Weird.
Post by
Skreeran
I believe in anything that can be comprehensively and irrefutably proven, either logically or empirically. This is why I'm an atheist, and it's why I don't believe in anything supernatural.
And if I can prove that there are ghosts?
I am also an athiest, well beyond what you are saying. You could offer me 'proof' of god and I would still deny it.
But ghosts have a lot more going for them. Especially when you encounter events that make you think "f*cking ghosts!"If you could prove that ghosts exist beyond a reasonable doubt, then I'd believe it. In other words, make a prediction using your theory which the affirmation of could only come about if the theory is true, like using a ghost's speech to find the location of something lost (like say, hidden valuables, or an unmarked grave, or something) that you couldn't have known about yourself would be evidence. A picture or video won't cut it.
I can't remember Dawkins' quote exactly, but he made an excellent case for logic in his book "Unweaving the Rainbow." He said something along the lines of "the only time an explanation is acceptable is when its being wrong is more of a stretch of logic than its being right." With ghosts, there are hundreds of possible explanations that
don't
go against everything we know about biology and physics. One of them is preferable than one that does.
That can't possibly have been the point.Since it's from a cartoon character, an already made up piece of someone's imagination, I don't put it above my own experiences with the Weird.But nopony's insisting that Twilight Sparkle is real. The words themselves are coming from the person writing the character.
Post by
190432
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Atik
Skree: I don't believe in super-intelligent ghosts, so I don't think I could use one to find my car keys in the morning.
What I do beieve in is residual energies working off a sort of "memory." Repeating an action indeffinately.
If said memory is one of thought, than I suppose a ghost could be tricked into thinking it was still the person.
Post by
Skreeran
Skree: I don't believe in super-intelligent ghosts, so I don't think I could use one to find my car keys in the morning.
What I do beieve in is residual energies working off a sort of "memory." Repeating an action indeffinately.
If said memory is one of thought, than I suppose a ghost could be tricked into thinking it was still the person.And how would you explain that?
Your explanation would require memory to be more than the combined effect of trillions of synapses in the human brain. Your explanation would require memory to be some kind of mystical essence, undetected by modern science.
We know what causes memory, and it's not magical energy.
Post by
Atik
Muscle memory, the constant repeating of those energies doing what they did all throughout the person's life.
Including energy that fired those synapses.
Post by
Skreeran
Muscle memory, the constant repeating of those energies doing what they did all throughout the person's life.
Including energy that fired those synapses.
We know where muscle memory comes from.
Isn't simple chemistry and biology. You're still attributing magical properties to energy.
Experiment: Plug in your toaster. Use it several hundred times. Unplug your toaster. Observe whether your toaster can still be used on the "memory" of being plugged in.
Energy is not sentient. It does not remember things. We cannot imprint our memories onto it.
The energy in our bodies is caused by a simple voltage difference caused by cells trading sodium, potassium, chloride, and calcium ions. The "energy" is simple electricity. Memory and consciousness are caused by the cells, not the energy. Just as you wouldn't suggest that the electricity that was in a toaster wouldn't be able to make toast out of memory, the energy inside us is just heat and electricity, and can't remember what we did when it was inside us either.
Post by
Atik
No, but when you unplug something, it can still have enough power flowing for a split second or so of more operation.
Being that we don't need to be plugged in and have substantially more energy at any given time then a toster...
Post by
Jubilee
Wouldn't that just make the body flop around like a chicken does after you break its neck?
Post by
Adamsm
Also couldn't be muscle memory...since a ghost isn't the physical body.
Post by
Atik
I'm using muscle memory as a placeholder word, as it is the best I can think of.
I just think it is the energy repeating the actions it has become used to doing. Like if someone goes to punch me, I don't need to think about blocking it. My body is just used to doing that.
Post by
Skreeran
I'm using muscle memory as a placeholder word, as it is the best I can think of.
I just think it is the energy repeating the actions it has become used to doing. Like if someone goes to punch me, I don't need to think about blocking it. My body is just used to doing that.That is reflex, and it still comes from your brain, just the brain stem, rather than the upper brain, so it's unconscious.
Being that we don't need to be plugged in and have substantially more energy at any given time then a toster...I'd like to know how you figure that.
HowStuffWorks
says the body only generates "between 10 and 100 millivolts," whereas a toaster uses 120-240 volts.
Post by
Atik
There is also energy within my brain the fires that signal. I don't need to tell the enrgy to move, it just does because that is what it is used to doing.
The the energy fires the signal after death, then the enrgy that is used to moving from that signal will still move, no?
Post by
Skreeran
There is also energy within my brain the fires that signal. I don't need to tell the enrgy to move, it just does because that is what it is used to doing.No, you still don't understand. Your brain stem (lower brain), at the base of your brain and the top of your spinal cord (in your neck)
does
send a signal to your limbs. Your upper brain doesn't have to send it, and isn't actually aware that it's being sent, because you've performed the action so many times that control has been relegated to your lower brain so your upper brain doesn't have to worry about it.
I suggest some reading on the
Autonomic Nervous System
and
Reflexes
. It's really more complicated (and interesting, if you ask me) than just "energy doing what it's used to doing."
Post by
Adamsm
A ghost would be the left over of your mind, the last few thoughts going through your head before the end, in your example Atik.
Post by
gnomerdon
yep.. my sister was at home, and the refrigerator was opening and closing itself by itself. anyways, my brother and dad went to go pick her up cause she's terrified atm.
Post by
Skreeran
yep.. my sister was at home, and the refrigerator was opening and closing itself by itself. anyways, my brother and dad went to go pick her up cause she's terrified atm.Slenderman>Ghosts, as far as scary stories go.
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